Virgin Galactic Spaceship Crashes...

Jokester said:
As far as I'm aware there's no ejector seats, it wouldn't be save because of the speeds it does. Plus you would a spacesuit effectively for air.
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Yeah you would need a suit, but they could have an ejector seat.
The x-15 had an ejector seat designed for match4 and 120,000 feet. Which covers some of the flight path. X15 basically achieved and exceeded what spaceship 1/2 does.
 
this_is_gav said:
I meant the sensors and testing and computer simulation power to minimise the chance of a loss of control in the first place. Precaution measures they didn't have access to, or minimal access to, which would have limited the number of incidents in the early push.
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That's design related stuff potentially could have saved a lot of pilots dying from much tuck before it was understood but none of that stuff helps you in a fitting mistake or if one of your materials doesn't act normally in a given situation.



All the simulations in the world can't help you if a seal is poorly fitted or damaged or like the space shuttle booster rocket, hardend up in the cold
 
Tefal said:
That's design related stuff potentially could have saved a lot of pilots dying from much tuck before it was understood but none of that stuff helps you in a fitting mistake or if one of your materials doesn't act normally in a given situation.



All the simulations in the world can't help you if a seal is poorly fitted or damaged or like the space shuttle booster rocket, hardend up in the cold
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And I said as much in my original post. :rolleyes:
 
Initial investigations have found no breaching of the fuel tanks or engines, so a failure there seems to be ruled out.

It's too early to be sure but it could have been a 'safety device' that malfunctioned causing the crash.....a true definition of irony? :-/

The 'feathering device' which is used to slow the craft on re-entry had been primed by one of the pilots, but was then deployed without any further pilot instruction.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-29876154
 
I just amazed at the really stupid questions ask by reporters. Like will this bring and end to development? or questions to that effect. Like plane crashes stopped air travel or car crashes stopped road travel ETC ETC. These things happen.
 
Kronos said:
I just amazed at the really stupid questions ask by reporters. Like will this bring and end to development? or questions to that effect. Like plane crashes stopped air travel or car crashes stopped road travel ETC ETC. These things happen.
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yes they do, but you are talking about a commercial project. this is being built to make money not so much to push mans development / boundaries

at some point a commercial decision will have to be made....
 
Kronos said:
I just amazed at the really stupid questions ask by reporters. Like will this bring and end to development? or questions to that effect. Like plane crashes stopped air travel or car crashes stopped road travel ETC ETC. These things happen.
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They do, but there has been a report in the Financial Times recently saying that the $400m from Abu Dhabi had dried up and that Virgin were footing day to day running costs as no further backers had been found.

Whatever went wrong it is bound to be hugely expensive and cause yet more seriously long delays.

I am sure the people working on this project remain determined and committed, however I am not so sure the people writing the cheques will be.
 
Tefal said:
All the simulations in the world can't help you if a seal is poorly fitted or damaged or like the space shuttle booster rocket, hardend up in the cold
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The space shuttle example is a pretty bad one as it was actually a fault that could have been picked up via proper testing (it failed in it's inaugural flight having just replaced it's asbestos based predecessor, they never tested it at sub zero temperatures as it wasn't going into space).
 
ubersonic said:
The space shuttle example is a pretty bad one as it was actually a fault that could have been picked up via proper testing (it failed in it's inaugural flight having just replaced it's asbestos based predecessor, they never tested it at sub zero temperatures as it wasn't going into space).
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Holy oversimplification batman!

Subsequent analysis determined that each and every "failure" (there were 8 instances of erosion and 4 of blow-by, all of which were picked up and analysed) wasn't actually a failure because the o-rings still did their jobs even though they were out of spec. All these incidents were reported up through all the flight readiness reviews and received formal waivers on the launch constraints that were put in place.

Normalising deviance and all that jazz - there was a culture backed up by engineering analysis.
 
It's a real shame this setback has occurred. We need to be pushing the boundaries in this area and it seems as a species we have just stagnated for some time. It's the one thing we definitely need to solve as a species (spreading out beyond this planet) and we just don't seem to place it as a priority and the removal of backing for this project, with the now inevitable delays, is hardly going to help.
 
Xordium said:
It's a real shame this setback has occurred. We need to be pushing the boundaries in this area and it seems as a species we have just stagnated for some time. It's the one thing we definitely need to solve as a species (spreading out beyond this planet) and we just don't seem to place it as a priority and the removal of backing for this project, with the now inevitable delays, is hardly going to help.
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Absolutely spot on
 
grumpysculler said:
Holy oversimplification batman!
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That's what it boils down too though, it's very easy to say that if the shuttle hadn't been hit by a massive undetected crosswind that the **** blockage would have held, and various other breaks in the chain. But as with most chains of events the is one at the start that could negate the whole chain, and if they had tested the O-rings to see how they performed in minus temperatures they would have discovered that ice would cause them to fail on launch unless allowed time to warm up, and the would have been no disaster.
 
When you're pioneering, path finding and pushing boundaries unfortunately sometimes, bad things happen. :( It's tragic and sad, but I hope this won't stop the programme as it'll mean the test pilot's death was effectively "wasted". It's awful news though, and you have to feel sorry for the loved ones of the pilot :(
 
That's very true Freefall when you are pushing the boundaries then such things will occur the problem though is that this is a commercial venture and has to answer commercial questions.
 
Xordium said:
We need to be pushing the boundaries in this area and it seems as a species we have just stagnated for some time. It's the one thing we definitely need to solve as a species (spreading out beyond this planet) and we just don't seem to place it as a priority and the removal of backing for this project, with the now inevitable delays, is hardly going to help.
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How does suborbital flight help us spread out beyond this planet?

I think the like of DragonX/Falcon, Antares/Cygnus and (longer term) Skylon are all incredibly important. I struggle to see Virgin Galactic in the same light.

ubersonic said:
if they had tested the O-rings to see how they performed in minus temperatures they would have discovered that ice would cause them to fail on launch unless allowed time to warm up
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Which is why Thiokol engineering recommended against launch with temps below 53F - they knew that the one launch below this saw the worst erosion and blow-by.

They did do some testing at 30F, but only of the o-ring.
 
Xordium said:
That's very true Freefall when you are pushing the boundaries then such things will occur the problem though is that this is a commercial venture and has to answer commercial questions.
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I think I read that up to 700 people had paid around $125,000 a ticket. Yet they have apparently spent the $400 million backing plus whatever Virgin have put in.

As pioneering as the project is sooner or later the accountants and share holders are going to step in.

So tragic for the family of the co-pilot and I hope the other man makes a full recovery soon.

I fear even if they can solve the technical problems they will have the NTSB to convince the project is safe.
 
Third Opinion said:
I fear even if they can solve the technical problems they will have the NTSB to convince the project is safe.
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NTSB are investigators, not regulators. They should say that X happened, Y caused a crash, we recommend Z changes be made.

Regulation of suborbital flights is an open topic - SpaceshipTwo and other suborbital craft don't meet the ICAO definition of an aircraft.

FAA still cover it in the US I think, but there isn't yet the same level of international agreement.
 
How on earth did the second pilot survive? Semi controlled crash landing or managed to parachute out? Apparently he's awake, alert and talking to family which is the one bit of good news.

Surprised that with the recent jumps in unmanned vehicles it wasn't flown from the ground. Or perhaps thats the exclusive area of the usaf, boeing and the other big defence companies.

Hope it's not the end for the venture...
 
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