Virgin Galactic Spaceship Crashes...

[Glaucus]

How on earth did the second pilot survive? Semi controlled crash landing or managed to parachute out? Apparently he's awake, alert and talking to family which is the one bit of good news.

Surprised that with the recent jumps in unmanned vehicles it wasn't flown from the ground. Or perhaps thats the exclusive area of the usaf, boeing and the other big defence companies.

Hope it's not the end for the venture...

No one really knows. Well they might now if he's awake. But most likely was thrown out. There's no ejection and chutes had auto opening at x height.

As to the other question, it's not designed to be pilotless. In fact the controls are very basic and old fashioned. As is Rutans philosophy. Keep everything simple.

Wonder if the recent problems with the motor caused feathering. The old motor could only be ran for 20seconds before the oscillations and vibrations got to big. so they swapped from a rubber - nitrous oxide to a plastic - nitrous oxide (& methane & helium I believe) to smooth the oscillations out, this was the first test flight with new engines.
The project has been struggling as the hybrid rocket motor doesn't scale well, the bigger they make it, the more vibration and oscillations there are. Bit they made the air frame so now have made a motor to fit the air frame, rather than the other way around. They should have switched to a liquid engine like most people said, however Rotan wasn't having any off it. He however retired a few years ago.

Will be interesting to see what the actual issue was and how they go forward.

Edit - oh dear, reading round lots of people are saying pilot error. That the aero dynamic stresses off going through mach 1.0 will cause it to deploy and isn't meant to unlocked till mach 1.4 has been reached, but was unlocked before this. If this is the cause it's a simple fix. Unlock it at the correct time and maybe add some additional safety feature.

 

[Freakbro]

Edit - oh dear reading round lots of people are saying pilot error. That the on board computers will feather below a certain speed and doesn't check if the rocket motor is still on. If this is the case it's a simple fix. A) prime it at the correct time and B) add a few more safety procedures to the on board computer.

Yea, I thought that hearing some of the later reports. It's still too early to know, but if it was, thats a good thing isn't it? It means there was nothing wrong with the inherent structural safety of the ship and is something easily solved.

 

[Glaucus]

Yea, I thought that hearing some of the later reports. It's still too early to know, but if it was, thats a good thing isn't it? It means there was nothing wrong with the inherent structural safety of the ship and is something easily solved.

Yep and here's the sources of all this talk

http://spaceflightnow.com/2014/11/0...et-plane-deployed-braking-system-prematurely/

About nine seconds after the engine ignited, the telemetry data showed us that the feather parameters changed from lock to unlock,” Hart said.

According to Hart, a camera mounted inside SpaceShipTwo’s cockpit showed Alsbury move a handle to unlock the feather system as the rocket plane passed Mach 1 — the speed of sound.

Such action on a SpaceShipTwo flight is not expected until the rocket plane reaches Mach 1.4, Hart told reporters in a press conference Sunday night in Mojave, Calif.

Normal launch procedures are that after the release, the ignition of the rocket and acceleration, that the feathering devices are not to be moved — the lock/unlock lever is not to be moved into the unlock position — until the acceleration up to Mach 1.4. Instead, as indicated, that occurred (at) approximately Mach 1.0,” Hart said.

The tail booms extended after they were unlocked, even though they were not commanded to do so, Hart said. SpaceShipTwo’s pilots normally must unlock the feathers, then send a separate command to move the tail booms into position for descent.

“This was what we would call an uncommanded feather, which means the feather occurred without the feather lever being moved into the feather position,” Hart said.

“After it was unlocked, the feathers moved into the deployed position, and two seconds later we saw disintegration,” Hart said.

“Shortly after the feathering occurred, the telemtry data terminated and the video data terminated,” Hart said.

Why isn't that in more articles as that's NTSB confirming that.

 

[VaderDSL]

Was it designated as a test? As in were they looking to test the feathering system outside of normal procedures to understand what would happen? Or was it simply an accident I wonder.

 

[Glaucus]

Not a test as far has been said and nor would it be, going through march 1.0 is rough on the airframe due to the shock waves. You would not want to feather and they didn't feather. the video shows them unlocking the tether below mach 1.4, but did not touch the feather leather.

Certainly looking like pilot error, but as said they haven't finished and still to early to say anything with confidence.

 

[Third Opinion]

How does suborbital flight help us spread out beyond this planet?

I think the like of DragonX/Falcon, Antares/Cygnus and (longer term) Skylon are all incredibly important. I struggle to see Virgin Galactic in the same light.

I must admit I share your views on this.

However it is branded this is still going to be a buzz for the very rich (5 minutes in sub orbit).

The way I see Virgin Galactic (and I am no rocket scientist) is a rocket plane. Rocket planes were invented in Germany in WW2. They were very dangerous and prone to killing pilots.

German technology was captured by Americans, British and Russians but the rocket plane discontinued.

Virgin promises ultra fast air travel on this technology but we have had all this before with Concorde. Even with it's massive fair prices and less dangerous propulsion it was uneconomical and statistically had a poor safety record.

Myself I am questioning what a breakthrough this really will be.

 

[adam98150]

I must admit I share your views on this.

However it is branded this is still going to be a buzz for the very rich (5 minutes in sub orbit).

The way I see Virgin Galactic (and I am no rocket scientist) is a rocket plane. Rocket planes were invented in Germany in WW2. They were very dangerous and prone to killing pilots.

German technology was captured by Americans, British and Russians but the rocket plane discontinued.

Virgin promises ultra fast air travel on this technology but we have had all this before with Concorde. Even with it's massive fair prices and less dangerous propulsion it was uneconomical and statistically had a poor safety record.

Myself I am questioning what a breakthrough this really will be.

Very interesting reading about some of the jet planes they built. The "widowmaker", for example. A lot of them were designed to reach threats as fast as possible, like planes carrying nukes and what not. Thing is they couldn't carry a payload. 1300mph is impressive though.

 

[Glaucus]

How does suborbital flight help us spread out beyond this planet?

I think the like of DragonX/Falcon, Antares/Cygnus and (longer term) Skylon are all incredibly important. I struggle to see Virgin Galactic in the same light.
.

As it's step towards "cheap" comercial space. Dragon v2 is stupidly expensive in comparison. It's a stepping stone. People will still see the world in a different way. It prepares the way for reusable falcon rockets, skylon, Bigelow space hotel. Bit those are still many years away from being available to mass market.

The first commercial planes weren't long distance, weren't cheap etc. But they paved the way and built up the market for such planes.

German technology was captured by Americans, British and Russians but the rocket plane discontinued.e.

You mean except many rocket planes, the most successful being the x15
It's a break through in cost, reusability, safety and commercialisation

 

[Cosimo]

Pilot tells how he was flung from the spacecraft and only saved when his parachute automatically deployed:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-...craft-crash-says-parachute-opened-itself.html

 

[leaskovski]

Thats nuts!! 600MPH into -57 Deg C. Amazing he survived!

 

[McBain]

It's run by Virgin, is this really any surprise? if it's anything like their train service, it'll be run by incompetent morons = disaster waiting to happen.

 

[Third Opinion]

It's run by Virgin, is this really any surprise? if it's anything like their train service, it'll be run by incompetent morons = disaster waiting to happen.

Bit harsh considering men have died on this project.

However the project has had safety concerns for some time. The escape system for the pilots consisted of a hatch that needed moving for them to jump out. This would have been pretty useless for some of the flight as they did not have environment suits on.

The pilot only survived because it broke up and he was flung free.

Considering the amount of concerns with the fuel and previous questions about the feathering system maybe these test flights should have been done by automatic pilot or remote control.

My personal thoughts are this was being rushed as only a couple of orbital flights had been completed and they were pushing ahead with full operational flights next year.

Further test flights will now be at least another year and passenger flights months or more likely years after they are completed.

I really cannot see how they can continue now.

 

[McBain]

Bit harsh considering men have died on this project.

Wasn't meant to be aimed at the individuals in question (i.e. the pilots) - more so the people running the company.

 

[Third Opinion]

Wasn't meant to be aimed at the individuals in question (i.e. the pilots) - more so the people running the company.

I see what you mean.

The father of the test plot that survived has also voiced his concerns on how the project was being managed. As a flight instructor he was appalled about the finger of blame being pointed at the pilots so early. He added that although the feathering system was unlocked further steps are required to deploy it and there was no evidence these steps took place.

Various other experts, suppliers and engineers have voiced concern over parts of the spacecraft. They have also declined IAASS meetings to discuss various concerns.

Be interesting to see what the investigation brings to light.

 

[Glaucus]

I see what you mean.

The father of the test plot that survived has also voiced his concerns on how the project was being managed. As a flight instructor he was appalled about the finger of blame being pointed at the pilots so early. He added that although the feathering system was unlocked further steps are required to deploy it and there was no evidence these steps took place.

Various other experts, suppliers and engineers have voiced concern over parts of the spacecraft. They have also declined IAASS meetings to discuss various concerns.

Be interesting to see what the investigation brings to light.

It's being investigated by the NTSB, who have made it clear they aren't blaming anyone yet and aren't pointing fingers, what the media do is a different matter.
However we do know the co pilot unlocked it at a speed which is not normal procedure.

Seeing as most peoples concerns where the rocket, which didn't fail. I wouldn't listen much to them.