VR Headset bought and returned but not refunded because money charged back on my card

[melmac]

Its Amaz.. who took the money from my card, they have not listened to a word that I have said , I returned the item through their required delivery service(Hermes). They simply won't listen or even investigate. And have even discarded the other item

I am going to the One Shop to get some answers first.

UPDATE - I went to the Hermes shop , showed them their card and explained it. They could not even get the tracking and just said well Ama.. recieved it and all I can do is contact their Hermes customer service which can't be contacted as I explained.

When I go to their Hermes chat and enter the tracking number. It says
"I can't find anything with the number you've provided. Would you mind checking & trying again? It's your 16 digit tracking number". The card given at the shop has an 8 digit tracking number that does not work on their sites.


I have literally had £350 stolen from me. I did not even authorise them to withdraw the money from my card?

You aren't reading what I am saying. According to Amazon you sent back the wrong thing.

I presume sent you Amazon sent you a returns label that you put on the box and then brought that to the Hermes drop off point? Did you get a receipt at the Hermes Drop off point? The card you get off them will only have an 8 digit code, the returns label that you got from Amazon should have the 16 digit code. If it's not there it should be in your orders/returns section on the Amazon website.

You should check your email from them when they refunded you the money in the first place. It should say something in that email about it been an advanced refund and they will charge your original payment method if they don't receive the item back. That's why they had permission to take money from your account.

 

[Sarge2255]

Do you have proof that you sent the item back? If not, what do you want the police to do?

Was there no confirmation that the package was delivered? Was that email asking about it 2 months later the only contact? Why wouldn't you send back a message saying it was returned already at that point?

Yes, I have the proof the returning customer gets(a receipt from the Hermes delivery service, provided by amazon, with tracking number). I fortunately also took photos of the item prior to packaging it and sending, just because it was an expensive item.

You aren't reading what I am saying. According to Amazon you sent back the wrong thing.

I presume sent you Amazon sent you a returns label that you put on the box and then brought that to the Hermes drop off point? Did you get a receipt at the Hermes Drop off point? The card you get off them will only have an 8 digit code, the returns label that you got from Amazon should have the 16 digit code. If it's not there it should be in your orders/returns section on the Amazon website.

You should check your email from them when they refunded you the money in the first place. It should say something in that email about it been an advanced refund and they will charge your original payment method if they don't receive the item back. That's why they had permission to take money from your account.

I presume sent you Amazon sent you a returns label that you put on the box and then brought that to the Hermes drop off point? Yes I did. It was a scan QR code at the shop and it produced a label to stick on the box. That was all done.

Did you get a receipt at the Hermes Drop off point? Yes I did get a reciept as proof of postage.

The card you get off them will only have an 8 digit code, the returns label that you got from Amazon should have the 16 digit code. If it's not there it should be in your orders/returns section on the Amazon website. Yes that is correct. However, no 16 digit Amazon code as this was a QR code and the 8 digit codes does not work on the Hermes website or automated call.

You should check your email from them when they refunded you the money in the first place. Yes they refunded the money like 2months ago and then took it back from my card despite me returning the item.

It should say something in that email about it been an advanced refund and they will charge your original payment method if they don't receive the item back. That's why they had permission to take money from your account.

Ok but the item was returned as I mentioned, so they did not have any permission ( I have the proof so that is thieving).

I've been stung!

 

[Unseul]

You have evidence. Not proof. You need proof of delivery from Hermes. That still doesn't prove that a Hermes employee didn't swap the contents but it helps.

The weight of the package would be useful too and may be on the receipt.

 

[Semple]

Yes, I have the proof the returning customer gets(a receipt from the Hermes delivery service, provided by amazon, with tracking number). I fortunately also took photos of the item prior to packaging it and sending, just because it was an expensive item.

Was the packaging a plain box?

I know hermes offer a drop service where you can return the item and they'll package/label it and return it for you. Which makes me wonder if the packaging wasn't a plain box and the person in the shop has effectively replaced the item in the box after submitting the return. All you have then is a slip to say you've returned it to Amazon, and now Amazon have a box that doesn't contain the item.

I'm not sure that you have any options here as you have no proof of what was in the box. You could try a small claims court, or even a charge back / fraudulent charge on your card and see where that gets you - but as others have said, if your bank forces the refund back to your account Amazon will more than likely ban you from using them again.

 

[Unseul]

And a chargeback is no guarantee you get your money back. If amazon have good evidence that there was something else in the box, then the bank will return the money to them.

 

[Sarge2255]

imagine they probably weighed it too.

You have evidence. Not proof. You need proof of delivery from Hermes. That still doesn't prove that a Hermes employee didn't swap the contents but it helps.

The weight of the package would be useful too and may be on the receipt.

Was the packaging a plain box?

I know hermes offer a drop service where you can return the item and they'll package/label it and return it for you. Which makes me wonder if the packaging wasn't a plain box and the person in the shop has effectively replaced the item in the box after submitting the return. All you have then is a slip to say you've returned it to Amazon, and now Amazon have a box that doesn't contain the item.

I'm not sure that you have any options here as you have no proof of what was in the box. You could try a small claims court, or even a charge back / fraudulent charge on your card and see where that gets you - but as others have said, if your bank forces the refund back to your account Amazon will more than likely ban you from using them again.

Well, tbh that's not my concern, I have already returned the item via Amazon's own postage service and recieved proof of postage ( the reciept Hermes handed me ). If Hermes lost , destroyed,stole , ....the package after I posted it, that has absolutely nothing to do with me ,they are liable and incompetent.

I returned the item as they asked and they are also keeping my money, with excuses.

They can't even provide any evidence that I sent the incorrect item. I can provide evidence I sent the VR headset and also have the reciept.

I'll do a bank charge back to get my money back thanks.

I'm also going to pursue a small claim court case for stress, £5k I have been hurt and stressed over this as it's going to last for weeks. It's only fair I get compensation for them steeling from me, even if it's due to their incompetence.

 

[Sarge2255]

And a chargeback is no guarantee you get your money back. If amazon have good evidence that there was something else in the box, then the bank will return the money to them.

I hope not, but I know the banks will not want to pay up anyway. I need to argue my case. But if they don't pay up, I'll close all my accounts with them.

I sent the item and even have proof of that and reciept of postage. I returned the item. I'm not liable if they are incompetent and have mixed up the returns etc.

They better have some well made up evidence, showing the same box I posted with the incorrect items ( which they have now discarded).

I'm quite stressed and sad, I hope my bank can help.i would never order from them again anyway.

 

[Unseul]

I hope not, but I know the banks will not want to pay up anyway. I need to argue my case. But if they don't pay up, I'll close all my accounts with them.

I sent the item and even have proof of that and reciept of postage. I returned the item. I'm not liable if they are incompetent and have mixed up the returns etc.

They better have some well made up evidence, showing the same box I posted with the incorrect items ( which they have now discarded).

I'm quite stressed and sad, I hope my bank can help.

It really doesn't bother the bank whether you have the money or amazon, they're probably be more likely to favour you, but it's no guarantee.

You have a receipt of postage. Amazon are not denying that you sent a package, so that receipt is potentially meaningless. Does it have a weight on it?

Do you have confirmation of when it arrived? Find out when amazon thought it arrived.

Did you order any home decor type stuff from amazon?

As for suing them for £5k for stress? Let me know how that goes...

 

[BigBANGtheory]

I hope not, but I know the banks will not want to pay up anyway. I need to argue my case. But if they don't pay up, I'll close all my accounts with them.

I sent the item and even have proof of that and reciept of postage. I returned the item. I'm not liable if they are incompetent and have mixed up the returns etc.

They better have some well made up evidence, showing the same box I posted with the incorrect items ( which they have now discarded).

I'm quite stressed and sad, I hope my bank can help.i would never order from them again anyway.

yeah thats not how it works, if the Bank decides in your favour they charge the merchant incl. the costs of managing the complaint. Your key to winning any dispute is having evidence, responding to any questions and determination... don't get distracted by any morale arguments Amazon aren't in the business of scamming people thats just how it feels to you and it wont help reach a resolution you can't decide who is or is not liable that's the realm of courts, and you're not at that stage what you have on your side is statutory consumer rights.

I'm gonna suggest this has little to nothing to do with VR at this point and I wish you luck in reaching a resolution.

 

[Sarge2255]

It really doesn't bother the bank whether you have the money or amazon, they're probably be more likely to favour you, but it's no guarantee.

You have a receipt of postage. Amazon are not denying that you sent a package, so that receipt is potentially meaningless. Does it have a weight on it?

Do you have confirmation of when it arrived? Find out when amazon thought it arrived.

Did you order any home decor type stuff from amazon?

As for suing them for £5k for stress? Let me know how that goes...

I would have used Royal Mail but Amazon forced me to use their own courier (Hermes). The Hermes proof of postage reciept is not even showing any information so again their incompetence is showing up (it does not show weight unlike Royal Mail). Amazon confirmed in the chat, that they recieved the item 2 times. As for the contents, I took pictures of the headset before posting in its box, this is simply the best I could do at the time.

I had posted/returned the item 100% exactly as they asked.Now they claim the wrong item was posted. reading through here, it sounds like they could have mixed up the order, or someone stole the VR headset and swapped it with another order, or just plain incompetence on their part and they are not even investigating it and I will continue to email them to. Either ways it's simply not fair for me to pay the bill for that.


The small claims court proceedings for stress will definitely be done, even if it costs me money I am going through with that and will ask for £5k for the theft of my money and the stress it has caused.

 

[Sarge2255]

yeah thats not how it works, if the Bank decides in your favour they charge the merchant incl. the costs of managing the complaint. Your key to winning any dispute is having evidence, responding to any questions and determination... don't get distracted by any morale arguments Amazon aren't in the business of scamming people thats just how it feels to you and it wont help reach a resolution you can't decide who is or is not liable that's the realm of courts, and you're not at that stage what you have on your side is statutory consumer rights.

I'm gonna suggest this has little to nothing to do with VR at this point and I wish you luck in reaching a resolution.

Thanks you, I'll focus on the evidence and pictures that I had taken. I know it will not be easy with the bank and detemination is what I need.

 

[Zeeflyboy]

I sent the item and even have proof of that and reciept of postage. I returned the item. I'm not liable if they are incompetent and have mixed up the returns etc

The problem with this sort of thing (usually eBay rather than Amazon, but same applies) is that you don’t actually have proof that you sent them the item.

You can take any number of photos, have a tracking number etc but at no point is it actually really possible to prove what was actually sent. Playing devil’s advocate (and not suggesting that you did this at all) you could have placed the item in the open packaging, taken a photo or video, and then removed and replaced it with something else (and if you are smart, something of similar weight). It is a common scam that Amazon will deal with daily.

Other than having an independent witness watch you place, seal and post the item there’s just no realistic way to actually prove it… short perhaps of continuously videoing the open package in the drop off store, sealing and handing it over.

I wish you the best of luck in getting it sorted however!

 

[Sarge2255]

The problem with this sort of thing (usually eBay rather than Amazon, but same applies) is that you don’t actually have proof that you sent them the item.

You can take any number of photos, have a tracking number etc but at no point is it actually really possible to prove what was actually sent. Playing devil’s advocate (and not suggesting that you did this at all) you could have placed the item in the open packaging, taken a photo or video, and then removed and replaced it with something else (and if you are smart, something of similar weight). It is a common scam that Amazon will deal with daily.

Other than having an independent witness watch you place, seal and post the item there’s just no realistic way to actually prove it… short perhaps of continuously videoing the open package in the drop off store, sealing and handing it over.

I wish you the best of luck in getting it sorted however!

Well, Amazon could have easily been annoyed with the return and used this method to keep the item and my money. Or simply someone on thier side has clearly stolen or messed it up.

Surely some investigation needs to be carried out and the item reported stolen to the police as I sent it to them. This is fraud as far as I'm concerned.

I read that Distance Selling regulations protects customers from this type of fraud. I intend to get cover from this.

 

[Semple]

Well, Amazon could have easily been annoyed with the return and used this method to keep the item and my money. Or simply someone on thier side has clearly stolen or messed it up.

Surely some investigation needs to be carried out and the item reported stolen to the police as I sent it to them. This is fraud as far as I'm concerned.

I read that Distance Selling regulations protects customers from this type of fraud. I intend to get cover from this.

No-one's disagreeing with you here mind. We're just pointing out that it's not possible to have 100% proof that the item you returned was indeed the VR headset.

Either way, a small claims court works on the balance of probabilities. You have some photographic evidence of what you've put in the box, and a slip from Hermes to confirm a parcel has been handed over to them. Amazon apparently now have nothing after destroying the evidence. I'm doubtful they have anything to prove that you didn't send the correct item, or whether it was changed at the Hermes point of collection, or changed at the returns center. So would be down to the judge to decide which side is more likely to be telling the truth.

 

[Musty Pie]

Just some friendly advice, from someone who deals with small claims cases on a regular basis for work, you will not win a claim for 5k stress, so to save your disappointment don't even bother.

 

[Haggisman]

Well, Amazon could have easily been annoyed with the return and used this method to keep the item and my money.

Just in case you weren't aware, "Amazon" isn't actually a person who gets "annoyed", they are a company.

Chances are, someone has messed up and mixed up the returns - the thing which really sticks out in this is the fact the box contained £250 worth of stuff from another order (I assume not your order?). If you wanted to scam them, why would you go to such effort for the sake of £100 (£350 headset - £250 of stuff you apparently sent)? You wouldn't, you'd stick a brick or a bottle of water or something else practically worthless in there.

 

[Unseul]

Just in case you weren't aware, "Amazon" isn't actually a person who gets "annoyed", they are a company.

Chances are, someone has messed up and mixed up the returns - the thing which really sticks out in this is the fact the box contained £250 worth of stuff from another order (I assume not your order?). If you wanted to scam them, why would you go to such effort for the sake of £100 (£350 headset - £250 of stuff you apparently sent)? You wouldn't, you'd stick a brick or a bottle of water or something else practically worthless in there.

That would have been my approach. I assume you have the conversation saved that states it was stuff worth £250?

There again, not ignoring a warning email would have been a better start as well.

 

[Moley]

Go to the press (Katie Morely @ The Telegraph, etc.) and complain via social media. That seems to be the way to get things resolved nowadays. Have you emailed Jeff Bezos?

 

[Musty Pie]

Have you emailed Jeff Bezos?

haha!

 

[melmac]

Yes they refunded the money like 2months ago and then took it back from my card despite me returning the item.

Ok something thing doesn't add up here, you said you returned it 4 months ago and got the Refund after 3 days. Now you are saying they refunded the money two months ago? Which is it?

Either way, I am just double checking, you did get the refund before you sent back the Quest 2?

Ok but the item was returned as I mentioned, so they did not have any permission ( I have the proof so that is thieving).

I've been stung!

Are you deliberately misunderstanding just because you are mad at Amazon or what? They aren't stealing and you did give them permission. When you do an RMA with Amazon and take the option to get a refund before you send the item back, you are giving them permission to charge your bank/card if you don't send back the item. As I said, the email that they send out states this pretty clearly. They give you 30 days to send the item back, if they don't get it back, they charge you.

You don't seem to get that Amazon hasn't received the Quest 2 back, you sent it, they didn't get it. That's why they charged your card. This isn't personal from Amazon. They aren't trying to scam you. Seriously, do you really think a multi billion dollar company is annoyed at you for a £350 refund?

As others have said throughout this thread. Your photos aren't proof of anything. You could have easily taking the photos, then put something else in the box. Amazon can only go by the box they got referenced to that tracking number.

Somebody else asked already, but, would you know from the outside of the Box that there was a Quest 2 inside it? Did you tell the the person at the Hermes drop off point that there was a Quest 2 in the box?

I would be willing to bet all my money that somebody at Hermes, whether intentionally or accidently, switched the labels on the boxes, and somehow your label ended up on a box of home decorations. That's why, if I was you, I would be going after Hermes, they are the ones that messed up.

Don't bother with trying to go the Small claims court against Amazon for stress. You have no case. It would a futile exercise and a complete waste of your time and money. And just end up with you been even more stressed.

Your only hope of getting anything is going after Hermes. And even then, the best you can hope for is getting your Money back.