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Vulkan and DX12 on new GPU'S

Noughtboy

Noughtboy

Noughtboy

Associate
Joined
18 Apr 2006
Posts
1,082
Location
Essex
Hi all,

Very undecided on which on the newest "baby" GPU'S to get to replace my venerable AMD Radeon 5850 which has served me well for the last 7 years :eek:

Going on the fact I upgrade rarely, i suppose longevity plays a large factor. My first question revolves around Dx12 and Vulkan. From what I have read, AMD should perform better under these new api's but surely the entire point of them is to level the playing field so it should become a non issue for either red or green, no?

Then I suppose 4/6/8 GB of VRAM. I would prefer to pay less rather more but obviously if 8>6>4 one would assume get minimum of 6GB even though for my gaming at 1080p 4GB should be sufficient.

My i5 2500k should be fine for the moment and my BeQuiet 530w psu as well.

From what I read, 1060 is generally better performer now and probably 6 months out but everyone is claiming AMD driver should turn this around afterwards. Why would this occur given my first question?

I would prefer AMD but not phased either way. Actually swinging toward nvidia because of better performance AND better efficiency.

Anybody care to weigh in?

Thanks

NB
 
Judging on what we have out now in Vulkan and Dx12 you want to go with AMD for the future. Nobody has a crystal ball but everything points to current AMD cards faring better on next gen Api's.
 
If it's for new upcoming games i would get a 480, if you play older dx11 games then get a 1060. A card to last longer than 2 years is a safer bet with amd even if the performance is not as good initially, and amd usually catch up eventually.
 
Unfortunately it is a bit of a no one has a crystal ball situation as TheRealDeal says - a lot will depend on the direction future game developers take, how much more truly can be eeked out of the hardware, etc. which is far from clear right now even with some pointers.

For me personally I'm most concerned about the performance over the first 2 years of owning a card and I generally aim to replace it after about that anyway so I've always gone for nVidia who generally do better there - some like their cards to last a bit longer where AMD have a bit better record of late.
 
Usually I recommend a 1060 because it's faster, uses less power, and runs quieter and cooler. But if you upgrade only after many years, I would buy an 8GB 480. AMD cards fare better in the very long term. Nvidia release new cards much more frequently so their older generations naturally fall behind relative to their AMD counterparts.
 
TheRealDeal said:
Judging on what we have out now in Vulkan and Dx12 you want to go with AMD for the future. Nobody has a crystal ball but everything points to current AMD cards faring better on next gen Api's.
Click to expand...

That's the part I don't understand. Surely the purpose of the new API'S is to level the playing field via async or cpu cycles or however it works such that performance increases across the board or certainly on an equal basis.
 
Noughtboy said:
That's the part I don't understand. Surely the purpose of the new API'S is to level the playing field via async or cpu cycles or however it works such that performance increases across the board or certainly on an equal basis.
Click to expand...

Nvidia's current cards do not have new api features such as async compute being done at a hardware level, Future Nvidia cards likely will meaning the push for most games to use these features in DX12 & Vulcan will increase, so in 2 or 3 years time you may find Nvidia's current cards such as the 1060 and the older maxwell cards not doing as well compared to AMD's current cards such as the 480 which do have hardware support for those new api features..
 
Noughtboy said:
That's the part I don't understand. Surely the purpose of the new API'S is to level the playing field via async or cpu cycles or however it works such that performance increases across the board or certainly on an equal basis.
Click to expand...

Remember our idea of equivalent cards is based on DX11 performance - in which AMD suffered problems with driver overhead, which is why a 1060 beats a 480 in DX11 games. Get rid of that problem and the AMD card comes out faster.

(OK, gross oversimplification, but gets the general gist across)
 
nashathedog said:
Nvidia's current cards do not have new api features such as async compute being done at a hardware level, Future Nvidia cards likely will meaning the push for most games to use these features in DX12 & Vulcan will increase, so in 2 or 3 years time you may find Nvidia's current cards such as the 1060 and the older maxwell cards not doing as well compared to AMD's current cards such as the 480 which do have hardware support for those new api features..
Click to expand...

Would the hardware integration of this account for some/all of the relative higher power consumption of AMD compared to Nvidia? I mean if you are running this hardware onboard surely it would then increase the power draw by something. That would then mean the efficiency or performance per watt gap closes as time progresses and Nvidia has to implement software patches on current cards or include hardware solutions in future versions. Am I correct or misunderstanding things?
 
Noughtboy said:
Hi all,

Very undecided on which on the newest "baby" GPU'S to get to replace my venerable AMD Radeon 5850 which has served me well for the last 7 years :eek:

Going on the fact I upgrade rarely, i suppose longevity plays a large factor. My first question revolves around Dx12 and Vulkan. From what I have read, AMD should perform better under these new api's but surely the entire point of them is to level the playing field so it should become a non issue for either red or green, no?

Then I suppose 4/6/8 GB of VRAM. I would prefer to pay less rather more but obviously if 8>6>4 one would assume get minimum of 6GB even though for my gaming at 1080p 4GB should be sufficient.

My i5 2500k should be fine for the moment and my BeQuiet 530w psu as well.

From what I read, 1060 is generally better performer now and probably 6 months out but everyone is claiming AMD driver should turn this around afterwards. Why would this occur given my first question?

I would prefer AMD but not phased either way. Actually swinging toward nvidia because of better performance AND better efficiency.

Anybody care to weigh in?

Thanks

NB
Click to expand...

I am facing the same dilemma as you at the moment. The last card I also purchased was the 5850 when it came out but stopped gaming about 4 years ago, Witcher 1 was the last game I played on PC.

I am edging towards a RX 480 8GB so at least I know it'll last me a couple to a few years before I need to look at upgrading. I will be gaming at 1920 x 1080 and a 480 performs well at 1440p too.
 
Mayh3M said:
Usually I recommend a 1060 because it's faster, uses less power, and runs quieter and cooler. But if you upgrade only after many years, I would buy an 8GB 480. AMD cards fare better in the very long term. Nvidia release new cards much more frequently so their older generations naturally fall behind relative to their AMD counterparts.
Click to expand...

That sums up my dilemma. Drawn to the current performance and efficiency of the 1060 verses the potential longevity of RX480 IF indeed AMD manage to pull their fingers out of their nethers.

Also, as I am running a three monitor setup, going Nvidia would tie me in to a more expensive gsync verses more reasonable free sync.

Ergo my ongoing dilemma. Preference for AMD but not blind to the Nvidia offering although tempered by the reluctance to get bent over a green barrel!
 
Noughtboy said:
That sums up my dilemma. Drawn to the current performance and efficiency of the 1060 verses the potential longevity of RX480 IF indeed AMD manage to pull their fingers out of their nethers.

Also, as I am running a three monitor setup, going Nvidia would tie me in to a more expensive gsync verses more reasonable free sync.

Ergo my ongoing dilemma. Preference for AMD but not blind to the Nvidia offering although tempered by the reluctance to get bent over a green barrel!
Click to expand...

I keep swerving towards a 1060 but after everything I've read I'm sure the 480 would be the correct decision for longevity and future-proofing. I just can't find one of the blasted things that's available for a reasonable price. I'd buy a reference card now, but they no one seems to rate them next to the customs.
 
fuzzylogic said:
I keep swerving towards a 1060 but after everything I've read I'm sure the 480 would be the correct decision for longevity and future-proofing. I just can't find one of the blasted things that's available for a reasonable price. I'd buy a reference card now, but they no one seems to rate them next to the customs.
Click to expand...

Don't buy a reference card. Especially since your interested in keeping your card for a long time. Do yourself a serious favour and get a decent aftermarket card.

AMD produce terrible coolers. Their cards use a lot of power and run hot. They desperately need good cooling solutions to do them justice both in terms of performance and overall user experience.
 
Noughtboy said:
Is the implication that future games should perform better on AMD due to porting being more suited to AMD architecture on consoles?
Click to expand...

Yes. Both Xbone and PS4 also do support Async compute, and a lot of new games coming out supporting that feature, while is supported on both Vulcan and DX12.

If you want to keep your card for long, get an RX480 (Devil or or any of the overclocked ones) if you are in strict budget, or a Fury. They are going to be supported for years to come.
And see the R9 290 as example. Is 3 years old and still is supported with improved drivers and performance boosts over the period, and going to be supported in the future also.


On the contrary the GTX780 was marked by Nvidia as legacy card since last year (Feb 2015), a week ago the GTX9xx series were moved to legacy status (including 980Ti) and next year, the GTX10xx going to be marked as Legacy also when Volta comes out.

"Legacy" status for Nvidia means, no improvements and optimisation with new drivers.....
 
Last edited:
Panos said:
Yes. Both Xbone and PS4 also do support Async compute, and a lot of new games coming out supporting that feature, while is supported on both Vulcan and DX12.

If you want to keep your card for long, get an RX480 (Devil or or any of the overclocked ones) if you are in strict budget, or a Fury. They are going to be supported for years to come.
And see the R9 290 as example. Is 3 years old and still is supported with improved drivers, got DX12 support with async compute, and performance boost.


On the contrary the GTX780 is marked by Nvidia as legacy card since last year (Feb 2015), a week ago the GTX9xx series were moved to legacy status and next year, the GTX10xx going to be marked as Legacy also when Volta comes out.

"Legacy" status for Nvidia means, no improvements and optimisation with new drivers.....
Click to expand...

Do you know the difference between legacy product and legacy driver? You do not even try use google.

However, they have updated.
http://www.nvidia.com/page/legacy.html
 
Mayh3M said:
Don't buy a reference card. Especially since your interested in keeping your card for a long time. Do yourself a serious favour and get a decent aftermarket card.

AMD produce terrible coolers. Their cards use a lot of power and run hot. They desperately need good cooling solutions to do them justice both in terms of performance and overall user experience.
Click to expand...

Since when was 160w a lot of power. The RX480 uses more power than the gtx1060 yes but it does not use a lot of power when looking at cards like the gtx480 and R9 290x. I agree though stay away from the stock cooler and get a Devil or another decent cooler.
 
Panos said:
Legacy product for Nvidia means they aren't going to receive any optimisation with new drivers.

Is different than Legacy drivers to support very old hardware.
Click to expand...

Where iis the link which states that? Who said that Kepler and Maxwell are getting legacy driver?

You know better then Nvidia and their employees?
ManuelG
NVIDIA Rep

All it means is that we have stopped manufacturing the GPU. Most of the optimizations we add to our drivers are not architecture specific so they should help most GPUs. If we are going to stop providing driver support for a GPU then we use the term EOL or end of life. Some businesses depend on having access to a GPU for a long time so it is useful for them to know which GPUs are current and which GPUs we have stopped manufacturing.
Click to expand...

http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=409017
 
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