Wait, what?

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I don't get why motorists are moaning about 5 seconds added to a set of traffic lights in Cambridge.

Surely the massive cycle superhighways being built in London are going to **** them off even more? Months of roadworks... huge public expense...
 
PMKeates said:
Any particular points above? Because you are arguing utter nonsense and are on to a massive loser.
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Burnsy2023 said:
Your point still doesn't make any more sense than it did before.
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Alright, one more time.

Cyclists should pay road tax because they use the roads, just like other road users. These contributions, no matter whether you believe the ringfenced thing or not, go towards road upkeep.
 
Tute said:
Alright, one more time.

Cyclists should pay road tax because they use the roads, just like other road users. These contributions, no matter whether you believe the ringfenced thing or not, go towards road upkeep.
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As does capital gains tax, VAT, income tax and many others, which cyclists pay. So what?
 
Tute said:
Alright, one more time.

Cyclists should pay road tax because they use the roads, just like other road users. These contributions, no matter whether you believe the ringfenced thing or not, go towards road upkeep.
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There is no general 'road tax' and no argument about VED makes it one. VED is a tax for motor vehicles to use roads. Cyclists pay for roads like every other taxpayer. The VAT on jockstraps goes towards road upkeep.
 
Tute said:
Alright, one more time.

Cyclists should pay road tax because they use the roads, just like other road users. These contributions, no matter whether you believe the ringfenced thing or not, go towards road upkeep.
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never met a motorist as stubborn as you tbh.
won't look at it from anyone elses point of view or accept your wrong

Aren't roads maintained by local councils anyway?
you don't live in newcastle you don't pay taxes towards our roads you shouldn't be allowed to drive on the roads in newcastle :p
Is basically what you are saying about cyclists
 
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Road tax doesn't exist. Roads are maintained through numerous taxes, of which VED is only one contributor. Council tax is the biggest contributor by far. (Obviously though if you understand the way the treasury works and how council funds are distributed, the word "contribute" here has numerous foot notes and asterisks attached.)
 
Just so I'm clear, Tutes argument is that car owners paying for a tax disk is the sole source of all funding for all road construction and maintenance in the UK?
 
I just want to make it clear that I won't be responding to the veiled flamebaiting posts.

Burnsy2023 said:
As does capital gains tax, VAT, income tax and many others, which cyclists pay. So what?
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So what? The road tax pot (according to above) is a quarter of the cost of the upkeep. If each cyclist paid £10 to use the roads for 12 months then that money would either:

a) Go into the spending pot, thereby a part of it is spent on road upkeep.
b) All be spent on roads, thereby all of it is spent on road upkeep.

Therefore they are contributing to road upkeep by paying road tax.

PMKeates said:
There is no general 'road tax' and no argument about VED makes it one. VED is a tax for motor vehicles to use roads. Cyclists pay for roads like every other taxpayer. The VAT on jockstraps goes towards road upkeep.
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See above.

NathanE said:
Road tax doesn't exist. Roads are maintained through numerous taxes, of which VED is only one contributor. Council tax is the biggest contributor by far. (Obviously though if you understand the way the treasury works and how council funds are distributed, the word "contribute" here has numerous foot notes and asterisks attached.)
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Yep, road tax is a contributor. Hence paying into it contributes to the upkeep of the roads.
 
Skeeter said:
Just so I'm clear, Tutes argument is that car owners paying for a tax disk is the sole source of all funding for all road construction and maintenance in the UK?
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More or less.

If you live in the UK, you pay something towards road upkeep regardless or whether VED is part of it or not.
 
Tute said:
Yep, road tax is a contributor. Hence paying into it contributes to the upkeep of the roads.
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It doesn't exist! :p

VED is the only thing that comes close. But this isn't a tax for the roads. It's a tax to make the country a greener, healthier, place to live (and meet EU carbon reduction targets). VED also acts as a convenient way to incentivise car manufacturers to improve engine emissions technology. At least, that's the marketing spiel the UK gov wants you to believe. In reality, it all just ends up in the treasury and sometimes a council might get allocated enough money to lay some loose chippings down on a road ;)

The irony of this whole thing is that the country is still operating with a deficit. Which makes the whole "[road tax directly pays for road maintenance]" spiel seem a bit silly. It's like in Sim City... one of the first things you dial back the funding allocations on is road maintenance as soon as you're in a deficit situation ;) And that is where pot holes come from!
 
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Tute said:
So what? The road tax pot (according to above) is a quarter of the cost of the upkeep.
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You've misunderstood. 25% of the budget is made up of central government funding, a small part of which is contributed to by VED. Much more of it is funded by other taxes.

Tute said:
If each cyclist paid £10 to use the roads for 12 months then that money would either:

a) Go into the spending pot, thereby a part of it is spent on road upkeep.
b) All be spent on roads, thereby all of it is spent on road upkeep.

Therefore they are contributing to road upkeep by paying road tax.
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Again, no. If each cyclist paid £10 annual VED, then that just goes to the treasury. That may go to an increased central government grant to local councils for roads or it may go to the NHS or just to paying the debt interest.

Tax doesn't work like you think it does.
 
Burnsy2023 said:
You've misunderstood. 25% of the budget is made up of central government funding, a small part of which is contributed to by VED. Much more of it is funded by other taxes.



Again, no. If each cyclist paid £10 annual VED, then that just goes to the treasury. That may go to an increased central government grant to local councils for roads or it may go to the NHS or just to paying the debt interest.

Tax doesn't work like you think it does.
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Well then where does the money for cycle route projects and the like come from? Because it doesn't come out of thin air.

It comes from a pot - which is made up of money - collected from taxes - of which road tax (or VED, call it Fred if you like) is a contributor.
 
Tute said:
Well then where does the money for cycle route projects and the like come from? Because it doesn't come out of thin air.

It comes from a pot - which is made up of money - collected from taxes - of which road tax (or VED, call it Fred if you like) is a contributor.
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Yes, some of it comes from central government funding some of it from council tax. My point is that cyclists pay these taxes too. A cyclist who has a higher tax burden overall (especially if that's council tax) pays more to roads than a motorist on a lower tax liability who does pay VED.
 
PMKeates said:
I think I would support a kind of 'Retard Moderator' to stop these ridiculous discussions wasting everyone's time. What a joke.
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You would think that people would take these opportunities to identify the gaps or mistakes in their knowledge and appreciate the opportunity to correct their understanding.

Alas, no. Persistently posting rubbish until everyone gets bored is the preferred route. Like when a cyclist jumps a red light and ploughs into you, and rather than apologising he unleashes a barrage of abuse and peddles off... :D
 
Tute said:
Well then where does the money for cycle route projects and the like come from? Because it doesn't come out of thin air.

It comes from a pot - which is made up of money - collected from taxes - of which road tax (or VED, call it Fred if you like) is a contributor.
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So what your basically saying is how dare someone use something that is funded by taxation without paying into every single taxation pot that funds that something?
 
Burnsy2023 said:
Yes, some of it comes from central government funding some of it from council tax. My point is that cyclists pay these taxes too. A cyclist who has a higher tax burden overall pays more to roads than a motorist on a lower tax liability who does pay VED.
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But then if every cyclist paid road tax the liability on non-cyclists would be reduced.
 
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