Wall mounting and projector advice

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"Project Bach Pad"

Hi all,

I'm looking for some advice on two subjects.

The first is wall mounting. Now, in terms of actually buying a bracket and fitting it, I've no problem with that. But the problem is, my TV doesn't have a VOSA mount. It's an entry level Panasonic Plasma TX-P50UT50B

However, when googling I've found brackets for it and I was under the assumption they all used a VOSA mount.

So a quick google images and some professional MSPaint inspections, are the highlighted areas where the bracket would attach?

Secondly, projectors.

So since splitting up with the GF. I'm looking to go full bachelor, and potentially look into a Projector setup. However the issue I have is that my ceilings are stupidly high. They must be 12ft at least.

So, in terms of a drop down projector screen, do they offer screens which would drop down far enough to bring it to a good level?

Also could someone run me through the costs of a screen and 1080p projector? Pros/Cons etc? I'm pretty DIY happy so I could fit it all myself, would be a fun challenge, so it's just pure purchasing costs really

Thanks

 

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Sorry to hear this J!

Indeed, such as life mate, ah well.

Lucid - thats an awesome reply. I'll take a look tonight and reply properly, I've got more questions about it all.

 

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Thanks for the feedback on that

What is this rainbowing? I've never heard of it.

Also, when wall mounting, can someone tell me what the proper height should be? I always thought that the top of the TV should be just above eye level? I see people put it way up on the wall and can only think they must get achey necks after a while?

 

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It depends how far away you are. Think there is a specific amount of degrees you should be looking no higher than something like 15. But it is personal preference. I like to be between half way and 2/3rds up but I do use it for gaming as well so looking up causes a bit of strain for me.

Also aside from budget are you planning to black out the room? If not certain PJ's/Screen combos will give much better results in a lighter room but you would probably have to spend more on a screen than you would expect.

Is all about your budget

OK I have included a crudely drawn layout of the piece of room. The brown box is the 'sofa' and the blue one is the 'TV'

I also measured my ceiling height, turns out I was a bit off...its 8ft 10! 12ft might have been exaggerating a tad

So as you can see from the image I'll be sitting roughly 9-10ft from the TV. I don't want it mega low or mega high either, I just wondered if there was a guided height

Budget wise - well to be honest without going ridiculous nothing is impossible. I earn good money and only have myself to spend it on. That's not saying start recommending 10k projectors but something to give good performance while using a bit of savvy and thinking "that's not 'that' expensive" sorry I know it's not an answer but until I have a better idea of what this realistically could cost then I'm a finger in the air kind of person.

This is my understanding. It may not be entirely accurate, but AFAIK you only get rainbow effect (RBE) on DLP projectors. The way in which DLP works, light from the lamp goes through a colour wheel which is span via a motor. It's the mismatch of the wheel RPM and the FPS on the screen. It's not so much an issue on modern single chip projectors but was more of a problem on older single chip DLP projectors pre 2000's

Ah cool so not entirely an issue nowadays?

 

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Can't really help with the PJ screen advice, I have a wall painted in black widow mix (cost of about £45 for 110 inch screen).

As for the projector itself, what's your budget? I was on a tight budget for mine so was at the low end of 1080p PJs. Got myself a BenQ W1070 which I'm really pleased with - it was £500 and the picture is amazing. There is one slight negative with mine and that is fan noise but I don't think you'll suffer from it with your ceilings. In mine the PJ is only about 3 ft away from me and is practically stuck to the ceiling so the fans have work.

Some people are sensitive to a blurring colour effect caused by DLP projectors such as the BenQ. I'm not personally and none of my friends have mentioned anything. If you were sensitive to this the you'd need to look at LCD projectors. Epson are known to make good ones and go as far as your budget allows, really. Avoid LED for now. Not really bright enough. Also consider lamp costs as bulbs will only last X amount of hours (usually around 2 or so years) and they're not B&Q jobbies. They're anything from £150 each.

Cable management sounds like fun with ceilings like that. When I was setting up mine I'm sure I read somewhere about signal deg in HDMI cBling over a certain length, about 8 or 10m. Feel free to ask any questions, can't think of much more off the top of my head. Oh, might be worth looking at AV Forums.

Hey man, sorry I never replied to your post originally.

Thanks for information. Budget wise, I'm sort of playing this by ear for now. Basically I haven't set a budget, this is new territory for me I don't know the costs or what to expect. Cable management won't be too bad, I full access to under the floors so even though this is going to be a few months in the progress I can buy a nice long HDMI cable and run it under the floor and leave it behind my sofa so when the PJ does go up I can conduit up the wall - I'll look up about signal degrading over distance.

VESA brackets are what started off life as a standarisation for desktop LCD monitors. The VESA standard has expanded to encompass larger LCD/LED TVs. Plasmas never conformed to the VESA standard because they were much larger and much heavier. So I wouldn't worry about the plasma not being VESA standard. It makes no difference.

A universal wall bracket will generally cover a range of sizes that span from medium size VESA settings through to those required for plasma screens up to XX". You just choose a bracket that will handle the screen size and weight. That's it. The range of fixing holes on the bracket rails will accommodate the hole spacing on the back of the TV. In 10 years of fitting TV's to client's walls I only ever had bracket that didn't fit a TV, and that was because the customer bought his own and then lost some of the fixings. You'll be fine.

Hi mate, I'll reply to this in chunks, it'll be far easier for me. Thanks for the confirmation on VESA

As for projectors.... Buy the best you can afford. Benq are cheap and cheerful (no disrespect), but Optoma's serious home cinema projectors (HD30 and above) are in a different league. The cheaper Optomas are good value but miss out on key features such as colour management. That might not sound so important at the moment, but it makes a huge difference to getting the most out of the projector. A well calibrated £1000 HD30 will kick the arse of most other projectors under £1800. The HD30 has just been superseded by the HD50. I haven't seen one in the flesh yet, so can't comment how well it will calibrate. If it's like the HD30 then it will be a giant killer.

Ok that's good to know. What features specifically should I be looking for?

Domestic projectors capable of doing a 7ft wide picture range in price from under £300 to well over £100,000 (yes, seriously). Most of the action for new users at at the entry level range under £2K. In that narrow price brand the focus of the products changes quite a lot.

At the real cheap end as the small business projectors that companies try to pass off as "great for home entertainment too" They're often 4:3 aspect ratio with incredibly loud fans, very poor video picture processing, and they're geared towards brightness against office lighting rather than producing realistic colour and convincing shadow detail.

Around £500 there's the gaming and entertainment projectors. These do a pretty respectable job with video. They're bright without being too garish; 2000-3000 ANSI Lumens isn't uncommon. They're not too noisy. Some have 3D. They're a good choice for a home bar/games room where you're doing the equivalent of pub football at home.

At about £1000 things are starting to tilt towards serious film watching: better 1080p DLP chips than the cheaper products. There's less of a focus on brightness and more on really good video processing, accurate colour rendition, better blacks. The brightness isn't so high as the gaming machines. But that's not a problem when the projector isn't fighting so much against a lot of ambient light. They're still pretty poky though and have enough light power to do a reasonable job without getting the room totally blacked out.

£2000 - £3500 is where the dedicated cinema projectors start. JVC's range of DiLA projectors starts here. They've been the big noise for the last 10 years in the "up to £10,000" market. Sony keep dipping in and out. They're currently on a bit of a push and have both 1080p and true 4K product technologies on offer. Currently Sony is the only manufacturer offering true native 4K resolution at under £10,000.

On paper, none of these projectors have the raw light power to compete with the budget projectors. But in reality they have far superior blacks, better chips and lenses, and use less tricks to achieve their quoted brightness levels so the playing field is somewhat levelled out.

Fantastic information, I'm probably going to be somewhere around the £1000 mark from the looks of it. It's only going to be used for films nights at the end of the day. What brands are recommended other than whats mentioned?

...and screens

Yes, there are manufacturers that will make you a screen with extra top black masking; enough so you can bridge the extra needed to deal with the high ceiling. Screenline is the first name that pops in to mind. You'll probably be looking at the thick end of a grand though. Not because the extra masking is so much more money, or that it's a special order. More that the basic qualities of the screen need to be much higher spec'd to have the capacity to deal with the additional material. So, whereas your cheap Chinese screens use a thin surface that sags a bit even in 16:9 standard form, and their motors and screen roller tube are rated just high enough to cope with the lighter screen; if you pushed them to deal with the thicker screen surface of a better screen then the Chinese mechanicals would soon fail. It's the same for their surfaces too. Adding a metre of extra top masking causes far too much sag and ripple in their thin materials. The basic quality of the two types of screen is poles apart.

All decent drop down screens will wall mount though. So if you can live with the screen case on the wall rather than up at ceiling height, there are some decent budget makes to tide you through until you settle on something worth a decent investment. Optoma's basic screens are okay. There's always the used route as well. Look for Draper, Screenline, Da-Lite. They're medium to higher-end brands worth paying for even as used buys. Top of the tree is Stewart. Their surfaces are simply stunning. The pictures really pop.

Thanks again for the recommendations, my only concern with wall mounting the drop down screen is making sure it is far enough away from the wall so it goes infront of the TV everytime and doesn't knock it/rest it. I still want the TV on the wall, I cba to wait a few minutes for a bulb to warm up each time I want to watch anything at all, the projector is for movies only.

 

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Yes please for the video

I'll definitely need the screen as I'm planning to run it alongside a TV, for the reason being that I don't want to wait 5 minutes to check the weather

 

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Lucid et all, video deg was mentioned for signals over a certain distance (9-10m) does anyone know the answer behind this? I'm talking about over a HDMI connection.

Many thanks!

 

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If you're looking at projectors around the £1000 mark then they're all going after the "everyman" market. So they'll do the lot - 1080p, zoom lens, remote control, 3D (though the eyewear may be optional), built in speaker (pathetic, but it's there anyway), multiple inputs (though you're only going to use HDMI probably), bright enough for use even with some room lights on; good for movies and games and TV blah blah blah.

It's only once you get up in price to over £2000 that you start to get motorized zoom lenses with memory zoom. This is for use with very wide screens (21:9 aspect ratio) so that Blu-ray have as little black border top and bottom as possible and make the biggest image. Then 16:9 stays the same height but the picture is zoomed down so it is pillar boxed (black bars left and right). IOt's possible to do this sort of thing with most projectors with a decent zoom lens. But if the lens is manual then you have to make the adjustments by had. I wouldn't worry about this sort of thing though if this is your first projector.

Whilst you say they will do the lot is there anything absolutely essential that I must have? Like you mentioned colour management in another post?

The other really important feature to check is the throw ratio. This is the relationship between the distance from the screen and the image size created. Some projectors have lenses that suit very small rooms or where the projector is on a coffee table between the viewer and the screen. This is mostly gaming projectors used for ad-hoc set-ups. At the other end of the range are those projectors that have a quite long throw.

Each projector with a zoom lens will give two numbers denoting the minimum and maximum ends of the lens range. They're a simple multiplier: Screen width times by X = closest throw distance. Screen width times by Y = furthest throw distance.

If you're looking at a Nov/Dec purchase then you've plenty of time to get a handle on working with these numbers and seeing how various projectors might fit in your room.

You've answered a question I had for you. After looking I'm thinking of roughly an 80" screen so now you've given me the calculation I can make sure said project has the correct throw ratio. Do I have to worry about distortion if it's at an angle? Or will it be able to correct for that?

When it comes to planning the install, it's worth remembering that pretty much all projectors in your planned price range have a lens offset. That means they throw an image up (or down when ceiling mounted) so the projector is aligned roughly with the bottom edge of the screen when table top mounted, or inverted and mounted level with the top white edge of the screen when wall or ceiling mounted. Plan your cable lengths accordingly! There's also a feature on some projectors called Lens Shift. This is the ability to jiggle the image up/down/left/right to some degree to help screen alignment. Lens shift won't let you do daft things like put the projector in the corner of the room. But it will make what I presume will be a DIY install a lot easier.

Brilliant because without this I'd imagine it takes a hell of a lot of careful precision fitting to make sure both the projector and the screen are in exactly the right place? And I don't know about you but if it was out but 5mm on one side that would bug the hell out of me

There's not a huge amount of models in proper home cinema projectors at a grand or less. Optoma and Epson and Benq take the lion's share of the market because they have multiple models at all the key price points for each application. Infocus recently dipped back in with the IN8606HD (<£700 for 1080p) but I haven't seen that in retail distribution, only through the online merchants, so that's not a good indicator of performance.

I know you mentioned the HD30 for Optoma, were there any other specific models you would recommend taking a look at?

As regards TV position, if you're bridging between TV and a projection screen then you'll need the TV a little higher than is would be on a TV stand. I'd suggest splitting the screen height in 3. The bottom 1/3rd below your seated eye line, and so the upper 2/3rds above. Average seated eye line for adults is around 40~44" from floor level.

You need to budget for a sound system with a proper centre speaker. That speaker will go below the TV. As the screen comes down then the bottom edge will park so it covers the TV but not the speaker.

Ok well I ordered the bracket last night, I wasn't looking to have the TV that much higher than the TV stand as I wouldn't want neck ache etc, so where you're talking about sounds about right for me, I'd need to measure though to check.

What I need to look at next is screens and decide if I want a wall mounted one or a ceiling one really. I haven't had a proper chance to look at them but now I know at least what size I want, that's a start

 

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I've been avoiding AV Forums, the place is a minefield...

An expensive minefield...

 

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ER - I'm guessing that setup is a lot cheaper than a motorised one? Can you post more information about it please, screen PJ etc?

 

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Edited my post...

I see no point in a motorised screen...I have built two home cinemas now (see sig) and I have never had the urge to install one.

Once you go 120" you can never watch movies on the TV again.

So in terms of actual screen quality did you look at others before settling on your one?

I'm still umming about a motorized screen, they are just hellacool.

 

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You can pay hundreds for a screen...I read some reviews and went for it. Still get a smile on my face watching movies and the world cup was awesome.

People obsess about things to much...Get your screen and PJ and start watching movies!!!!!

The novelty of a motorised screen will wear off and you need to provide power which means more wires...

As you can see from my setup...I have no wires at all...Wires suck.

It takes 5 seconds to pull the screen down to watch a movie....In fact wating for a screen to drop slowly on a motor would get on my nerves...Just like you said you couldn't wait for the bulb to come on to watch TV

You make a valid point, and I can be impatient!

I'd love to see a setup first hand to get a feel for it all. I'm assuming you're miles and miles from me though (My location is wrong, I've moved back to Rainham, Essex)

 

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Don't bother with an electric screen, the only time i use the TV in the cinema room is to play the SNES / N64 etc, why would i want to watch anything on the TV when i have 100inch + screen.

Don't hang the screen from the ceiling, fix to the wall instead; i went for an optoma ceiling projector mount too, worked out well.

You need to measure all distances twice / three times before mounting anything, distance the projector is from the ceiling will dictate your screen height, and remember when mounting the projector, make sure you centre the projector on the lens and not the body, you want to be in the position you need 0 lens shift, so getting your dimensions perfect is very very important.

FYI i went for an Optoma screen, build quality is good, and the picture looks great.

Oh and as for signal issues over HDMI, i've got a 2x 10m runs above the ceiling, i used a 2x Belkin leads with networking built in, cost about £19 each, they run alongside several Cat6 cables and two 2.5mm mains cables, no image issues at all.

Thanks mate - I won't be going 100+ I'm only 9ft away, that's just too big. (My inner man says its not big enough, but the sensible me says it is )

Everyone keeps saying Optoma...how much did you spend out in the end Firestar?

That's good about the signal issues, know I can go 10m at least. it won't be more than that, it'll be from above my head, down the wall, under the floor and across the room up and into the tv cabinet.

One thing though, my amp only has one HDMI output, which obviously goes to the TV. So I'll need a switcher to go from the HDMI out on the amp to split it to either the TV or the PJ

 

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Once you get used to it you will always wish you had of gone as big as space allows.

I'm sure there is an innuendo there...

 

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Considering I've purchased the wall bracket and av wall panel setup can a passing mod please change the thread title to "Project Bach Pad" ? save me creating extra threads. Can just turn this one into a project thread.

 

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Snip

Thats fascinating.

So basically, short cables - cheapys will do, longer cables buy something half decent.

 

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That looks bloody amazing!

Interesting to read you have pretty much the same viewing distance as me and say 92" is perfect...I can't help but think it would be too big.

I guess I need to look at them in actual size, can I go do this at Sevenoaks?

 

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Guys, anyone know where I can go view some projectors in action and check out screen sizes?

Also on a side note. I've decided to go for an AV wall panel to keep things neat, the modules etc should be arriving by the end of the week, ready to be fitted over the weekend...TV wall bracket is going up today.

 

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Lucid, et all.

So yesterday I got a windfall. I come home to a letter from the Inland revenue saying I'm getting a £700 rebate. So the purchase of a projector just got sped up quite considerably!

I've been thinking about it a lot, I'm certain I want it. I can't see me not liking it (when being realistic about it )

Also last night, using what little is in my house at the moment (all my belongings are at my ex gf's at the moment) I marked out the rough size of a 90" projector screen.

My...word...it's hard to fathom! - To give anyone else the idea of size, that chimney breast it's against is 57" wide....

Now I'm currently deciding on how to mount the Projector, I will think about the screen afterwards as there are more options/variations for that.

I'm really liking the look of the Optoma HD30, nobody has anything bad to say about it, and I can find one online for £629 refurbed directly from Optoma.

I'm thinking of going for a ceiling mount. I want to keep the wall it'll be closest to as clean as possible as I have some artwork planned for it. Plus with it ceiling mounted I should be able to get the image at a good height.

My ceilings are 8ft something (it's in this thread, I can't remember exactly) so its pretty close to the diagram, making it ideal.

However, it will mean (I assume it will anyway) ditching my lampshade and swapping out for ceiling spots...which I don't mind, it just means more work...ah well, Rome wasn't built in a day

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Going from this, I'm back at screens. as you can see from the above image if I was to wall mount the screen I would have to have long brackets coming out from the alcoves and the screen I think would be an eyesore, and generally bug my OCD. So I'm back at looking for a ceiling mounted one.

Are screens available that bolt to the ceiling rather than having to sit in it? I wouldn't mind fitting one into the ceiling, but again it's more work. If one is available that will just bolt to the ceiling, I would be happy with that.

What say everyone?

EDIT: Oh and as you can see the wall bracket is now up, cheers for the help on that!

 

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Most screens fix to the wall or ceiling. They have brackets that allow for both. I'm a bit confused on your ceiling height though. You said they were at least 12', but now they're 8' something. That's quite a difference

If you mount to the ceiling, you'll have to tie something to the handle on the screen so you can pull it down. Even with 8' ceilings... Unless you want to get some ladders out each time you use it

Regarding the lampshade. I had that problem too. Nothing was going to stand in my way of a PJ screen (or hang in my situation), so i butchered the lamp shade and cut it shorter. The projection beam just about skims the bottom of the lampshade now by a nats ballbag.

If you're really picky about stuff looking an eyesore, you could build a pelmet around the PJ screen case. Box it all in on the ceiling, and just have a slot for the screen to fall through.

I got the ceiling height, very...very wrong, basically They look a lot bigger than they are. They are 8ft 10" so almost 9ft - still pretty high for a ceiling

Yeah I'll attach something to reach and grab it, or use a stick on a hook if I don't want anything dangling there - I'm a short arse anyway, height is not my friend

Haha I did think afterward I could just shortern it and if not go the ceiling spot light route. I shortened it for the one by the front door and that's fiiine.

I don't mind it being bolted to the ceiling, more it sticking out either side of the chimney breast if I wall mounted it

EDIT: Just got your email with the screen link, thanks for that. Have seen I can get one new for £140 from Amazon? Not bad at all!

Can you do me a favour? Can you fully extend it and tell me how far it drops down from when you pull it down and also how much black space there is above the screen to the hidey bit/bar please?