Want to get rid of speed camera's??

[Dolph]

Not at all, the legality has irrelevent. My point is that even in these conditions, there must become a point at which driving at such a speed that it is dangerous. Perhaps it's high than 150, 200mph? If you accept that then it stands to reason your statement Speeding != Wreckless does not apply.

There is a point for any given situation where travelling speed becomes reckless, but it differs depending on the road, the conditions, the driver, the car...

There isn't a point where you can say 'This speed is dangerous full stop' IMO, there are situations where 200mph isn't reckless, there are also situations where 30mph is reckless. My argument was that you can't use the two terms interchangeably, there are certainly situations where both apply.

I do pretty much the same, and I do agree with your argument, and I certainly don't think that the speed you travel at suddenly becomes dangerous at an arbitry number. However I believe there becomes a point at which one can be wreckless due to the speed of human reactions, coupled with the conditions of motorways and the capability of cars.

Of course there is, there is a big difference between appropriate and inappropriate speed.

 

[RDM]

I know

You wouldn't argue they were doing a great job? You do realise that since the introduction of cameras, the rate of change in road deaths and injuries has fallen slower than it was before their introduction, right?

http://www.safespeed.org.uk/effects.html

And that's despite huge improvements in car design...

How much of those falls prior to the introduction of speed cameras were due to police patrols and how much was due to the continued improvements in car design?

Of course more police patrols would be ideal, however that isn't going to happen without either the police being taken off other duties or there being an increase in policing. Additionally if you remove the revenue stream from speed cameras then you would also need to increase taxation to make up for that.

Removing speed cameras would cost both in terms of their replacement and the revenue lost from them. Are you prepared to pay those costs?

I would say cameras as a safety policy have failed far more than the police ever did, and that's what I care about. Safety, not 'law' or revenue. If the law isn't improving safety, then it's either a bad law or badly enforced, and the strict enforcement of the speeding laws hasn't improved safety at all...

The cameras haven't failed, they just havent been as successful. Despite the usual scare stories cameras don't really make the roads any more dangerous (otherwise deaths would have gone up rather than down slower). I cannot obviously speak for the whole of the country but at least in the area I am in most speed cameras are actually sensibly placed.

Speeding laws do increase safety they just don't improve them by a huge deal (you yourself have stated that 4% of accidents were caused by speeding, therefore if everyone obeyed the speed limit there would be 4% less accidents).

 

[lay-z-boy]

Surely it depends entirely on the setting. On the M3 at Basingstoke (which consistantly moves at around 90mph IME quite safely), the 45mph driver is far more of a danger than the 100mph driver. I'd even say the same applies on a motorway where everyone else is doing 70mph. It's all about context and situation. What is safe isn't defined by the number, but by the situation.

Round my area there have been two camera's put up on a very, very long straight, racers would come down this road at ridiculous speeds, after 2 deaths and 1 case of bad brain damage they put them up, there hasn't been a single case since then

That is my sort of experience, i don't know how it compares
with yours but it is the basis of my previous viewpoint.

 

[Dolph]

How much of those falls prior to the introduction of speed cameras were due to police patrols and how much was due to the continued improvements in car design?

It's hard to say, but the falls were constant for over a decade before cameras were introduced...

Of course more police patrols would be ideal, however that isn't going to happen without either the police being taken off other duties or there being an increase in policing. Additionally if you remove the revenue stream from speed cameras then you would also need to increase taxation to make up for that.

Removing speed cameras would cost both in terms of their replacement and the revenue lost from them. Are you prepared to pay those costs?

If it resulted in genuine improvements in road safety, yes, i'd happily pay more (and I'm not a fan of taxes). I'd prefer it to come from stopping wastage (hideously optimistic I know), but if it had to be more tax, I'd pay it.

The cameras haven't failed, they just havent been as successful. Despite the usual scare stories cameras don't really make the roads any more dangerous (otherwise deaths would have gone up rather than down slower). I cannot obviously speak for the whole of the country but at least in the area I am in most speed cameras are actually sensibly placed.

Shame they aren't round here... Unless sensible placement involves raising money on roads that have recently had their limits lowered...

Speeding laws do increase safety they just don't improve them by a huge deal (you yourself have stated that 4% of accidents were caused by speeding, therefore if everyone obeyed the speed limit there would be 4% less accidents).

But, compared to what they should be focussing on (and what the speed kills policy distracts from), 4% is pocket change... I want to see a comprehensive road safety policy, unfortunately, it would be incredibly unpopular, because it would involve telling most drivers they were crap, and that's never popular...

 

[Dolph]

Round my area there have been two camera's put up on a very, very long straight, racers would come down this road at ridiculous speeds, after 2 deaths and 1 case of bad brain damage they put them up, there hasn't been a single case since then

That is my sort of experience, i don't know how it compares
with yours but it is the basis of my previous viewpoint.

Sounds like a worthwhile exercise in that case, see earlier in the thread for my experiences (the three lane dual carriageway with a cliff and a river dropped from NSL to 40mph, and campaigning for a camera to slow people for a hidden hazard but being told no because it wouldnt' catch enough people cos the locals don't speed)

Or the fact that the camera van can be found on the A38 on the three lane section with no junctions where people speed because it's safe to do so, where the only accidents have been the very occasional motorcyclist/deer incident where speed is largely irrelevant, but can never be found further along where there are regular accidents, again because most people don't speed through that bit...

 

[Chronos-X]

I have never seen one around any of the local schools, if they were dotted around in areas where speeding was dangerous I would fully support them, however they all seem to be on long straight NSL dual carriage ways in the middle of nowhere

See now this I object to. I see very, VERY few cameras on motorways and dual carriageways. I see a lot more of them in residential areas.. so what's the ****ing problem?

 

[AJUK]

Even faking your own death doesn't work any more.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/south_west/6419195.stm

These are the depths these awful cameras drive people to.

 

[TC1]

Problem is that a lot of speed cameras are put in stupid places! We need more by schools etc, that is a good idea. What is the point in putting them on deserted stretches of roads?

A lot of drivers, me included, speed and then brake when we see a speed camera and then accelerate away. The slowing down is only for a few seconds. Around schools etc is the best place for them, not planted willy-nilly all over the place!

 

[Andr3w]

Strangley enough i don't. I don't mind them out side of the primary school i pass on the way to work each day but i don't agree with them on fast A roads

I feel the same

 

[WIBSBOT]

Surely the problem is not the speed camera but the speed limit ?

The speed camera just 'enforces' the limit.

Do we not have the technology now to introduce variable speed limits on roads ? Could it change the speed limit outside a school from 30 to 40 or 50 at the weekend when school is not in session ?

Why raise a petition against speed cameras, it seems pointless imo.

 

[ZXSpectrum]

I dont mind them in areas where they are actually for saftey like near schools and built up areas, parks etc but thats about it... I would rather they took all of the non safety specific ones (Yes i know they ALL fall under the veil of safety) and put red light jump cameras on EVERY junction. 1st time=warning, 2nd Time=warning and Fine, 3rd time=big fine and points. If you do it after then it should be a mandatory ban.

 

[Saberu]

Perhaps the answer is to put speed cameras everywhere

That way people won't be looking out for them because they will always be on a road! The only other reason for not having speed cameras was people looking at their speedo too much and not concentrating on the road as Dolph said.

I don't agree with this because if the speed limit on a road is 40mph the camera won't flash you until your doing 10% +2 which in the case of 40 is 46mph. You can safely travel at 40 and go over by up to 5mph without being flashed which means you don't have to be constantly checking your speed. Though in reality people are already going 45mph to speed as much as possible whilst staying under the limit!

All that said I still signed the petition because I think speed limits in some places are too low anyway so I don't agree with enforcing them. For example the speed limit on a motorway is 70mph yet almost all drivers can safely cruise between 70-100mph. And a driver who knows he can't drive at fast speeds because he has bad eye sight or something and then decides to drive at fast speeds anyway is just as likely to crash at lower speeds because he is a seemingly reckless driver for wanting to go fast to begin with.

Do we not have the technology now to introduce variable speed limits on roads ? Could it change the speed limit outside a school from 30 to 40 or 50 at the weekend when school is not in session ?

Yes we easily have the technology, LED speed limit signs already exist. For example the ones which flash on for a lower limit when there is a traffic jam. The only problem with your idea is the cost would be to great to use them so widely, that may not be the case in 10 or 15 years though.