Poll: War - yes/no?
- Thread starter [TW]Fox
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As for WMD we and the US etc should be looking at a full decomissioning of them so that up and coming nations do not aspire to get them.
Rouge States however are always going to cause trouble but we should try and choke them with sanctions before they get into WMD and big threats so hopefully it will all die down. I vote to get rid Saddam and his followers still. Hopefully a stable Iraq will allow people to concentrate on sorting out the mess in Israel etc.
Rouge States however are always going to cause trouble but we should try and choke them with sanctions before they get into WMD and big threats so hopefully it will all die down. I vote to get rid Saddam and his followers still. Hopefully a stable Iraq will allow people to concentrate on sorting out the mess in Israel etc.
If we get rid of them then other nations will want them for the same reason we have them
Associate
The majority of the the UN doent support war on financial grounds, France like to play at super powers but when push comes to shove, they just sit on the fence. The germans, well the less said about them the better. The russians cant afford to look after their own people, let alone support an army, that get paid as and when it can aford to, in a foreign country. That makes the UN look cheap.
There are points in time when you can talk and talk until you are blue in the face. sometimes in an argument the one with the big stick wins. American has a very big stick, and Saddam & the UN dont believe that it will be used. They are both going to find out very soon, how much hurt that stick wields.
Soldato
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Originally posted by silverpaw
Iraq is a country which:
Tourtures it's own people.
Executes people without trial, beheading in the street is popular.
Gassed 60 000 of its own citizens as they went about everyday business.
Invades neighbouring countries, Kuwait for example.
Persistantly tries to create chemical, biological and nuclear weapons, against UN resolutions set out after the last war.
Has broke resolution 1441 by not declaring the whereabouts of chemical weapons we hnow they have, nor proving they've been destroyed.
Have persistently ****** about, threatened and spied on weapons inspectors.
What possible reason is there NOT to remove Saddam?!
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The US is a ccountry that;
1) vetoed 36 resolutions regarding Israels occupation of the west Bank
2) supports Israel despite the outstanding for 30 years UN RESOLUTION calling for Israel to withdraw from the WEst Bank
3) refuses to sign up to the internation war crimes court (why?)
4) attempts to bully and bribe member of the Un into supporting it's policies (read the papers)
5) spys on fellow members of the UN
6) sold WMD to Iraq
7) withdrew from the 1972 Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty
8) urged abandonment of the Biological Weapons Convention (Donald A. Mahley)
9) declared that it is willing to use nukes pre-emptivly
10) refused to sign the COMPREHENSIVE TEST BAN TREATY
11) refused to sign the CONVENTION ON THE PROHIBITION OF LANDMINES
12) ensured that under the CHEMICAL WEAPONS CONVENTION, the president could refuse any inspections
13) withdrew from the KYOTO GLOBAL WARMING ACCORD
14) refuses to pay UNITED NATIONS DUES amounting to approx £500Million
15) refused to ratify the U.N. Convention on the Rights of the Child which would mean that 17 year olds could not join the US army
16) In May 2001, the United States was voted off the UN Human Rights Commission
17) 1950 Korean War – The USA invaded North Korea without any declaration of war, calling it a 'police action'
18) 1955 Vietnam War - started with a fasle declaraqtion that the US had been attacked
19) 1961 Invasion of Cuba because it did not like castro
20) 1965 Invasion of Dominican Republic because it did not like the legally elected government
21) 1973 Deposing of Salvador Allende in Chile (legally elected) and replacing with Augusto Pinochet - who promptly killed tens of thousands of innocent people
22) 1983 Invasion of Grenada because it did not like the legally elected government
23) 1985 Iran-Contra Affair – The USA secretly funded a guerrilla army with money made from illegal weapons sales to Iran
24) 1986 Bombing of Libya – Without offering any hard evidence whatsoever, the USA claimed that Libya was masterminding global terrorism and illegally bombed Tripoli, killing the daughter of Libyan leader Gaddafi and other innocent civilians
25) 1989 Invasion of Panama
26) 2001 - began series of extra-judicial killings of only terrorists SUSPECTED
27) 2003 - refuses to treat Guantánamo detainees with any basic human rights
28) will use depleted Urainium shells, despite scientific concerns that the are very harmful to the environment and people long after war will have ended
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Originally posted by silverpaw
Iraq is a country which:
Tourtures it's own people.
Executes people without trial, beheading in the street is popular.
Gassed 60 000 of its own citizens as they went about everyday business.
Invades neighbouring countries, Kuwait for example.
Persistantly tries to create chemical, biological and nuclear weapons, against UN resolutions set out after the last war.
Has broke resolution 1441 by not declaring the whereabouts of chemical weapons we hnow they have, nor proving they've been destroyed.
Have persistently ****** about, threatened and spied on weapons inspectors.
What possible reason is there NOT to remove Saddam?!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The US is a ccountry that;
1) vetoed 36 resolutions regarding Israels occupation of the west Bank
2) supports Israel despite the outstanding for 30 years UN RESOLUTION calling for Israel to withdraw from the WEst Bank
3) refuses to sign up to the internation war crimes court (why?)
4) attempts to bully and bribe member of the Un into supporting it's policies (read the papers)
5) spys on fellow members of the UN
6) sold WMD to Iraq
7) withdrew from the 1972 Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty
8) urged abandonment of the Biological Weapons Convention (Donald A. Mahley)
9) declared that it is willing to use nukes pre-emptivly
10) refused to sign the COMPREHENSIVE TEST BAN TREATY
11) refused to sign the CONVENTION ON THE PROHIBITION OF LANDMINES
12) ensured that under the CHEMICAL WEAPONS CONVENTION, the president could refuse any inspections
13) withdrew from the KYOTO GLOBAL WARMING ACCORD
14) refuses to pay UNITED NATIONS DUES amounting to approx £500Million
15) refused to ratify the U.N. Convention on the Rights of the Child which would mean that 17 year olds could not join the US army
16) In May 2001, the United States was voted off the UN Human Rights Commission
17) 1950 Korean War – The USA invaded North Korea without any declaration of war, calling it a 'police action'
18) 1955 Vietnam War - started with a fasle declaraqtion that the US had been attacked
19) 1961 Invasion of Cuba because it did not like castro
20) 1965 Invasion of Dominican Republic because it did not like the legally elected government
21) 1973 Deposing of Salvador Allende in Chile (legally elected) and replacing with Augusto Pinochet - who promptly killed tens of thousands of innocent people
22) 1983 Invasion of Grenada because it did not like the legally elected government
23) 1985 Iran-Contra Affair – The USA secretly funded a guerrilla army with money made from illegal weapons sales to Iran
24) 1986 Bombing of Libya – Without offering any hard evidence whatsoever, the USA claimed that Libya was masterminding global terrorism and illegally bombed Tripoli, killing the daughter of Libyan leader Gaddafi and other innocent civilians
25) 1989 Invasion of Panama
26) 2001 - began series of extra-judicial killings of only terrorists SUSPECTED
27) 2003 - refuses to treat Guantánamo detainees with any basic human rights
28) will use depleted Urainium shells, despite scientific concerns that the are very harmful to the environment and people long after war will have ended
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Permabanned
Cos it believes that it would expose its peace keeping troops to nuiscance lawsuits. Afterall an international community that can have Iraq and libya chairing Human rights Committees and Disarmwmwnt committees is capable of any insanity
Everbody spies on everybody whats the problem?
Which they were perfectly entitled to do so.
Not cos they wanted biological weapons they expressed doubts about parts of the Convention
They have a right to choose what they agree to or not.
So individual states are implementing the accords as allowed under US Constitution
Why fund a body that is renowned for wasting money see point 16
And we all know what a terrible place the US is to live in What with the ethnic cleansing, CW and BW attacks, the secret police rounding up political dissidents all this in the last 20 odd years. No waitmy mistake thats Iraq!
What planet are you on. The North invade the South. They started that war, which officially hasn't ended yet BTW. The UN assisted the South.
Nope perfectly legal under US law.
Wrong
War is bad, deal with it. This is not a perfect world we live in and not everything is as good as you want. So what do you do, give your troops inferior weapons that may lead to more casualties on your side because of vague and unproven allegations of a weapon system thats been used for decades or carry on but be prepared to deal with problems later?
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Soldato
So people as clever and knowledgeable as yourself can finally prey on someone
Frankly I'm not sure whether to support the war or not. It would be nice to get rid of Saddam, the Iraqi people probably think the same way too. However, for the UN to elect a democratic leader in a country that hasn't ever had anything other than a dictator is just crazy. A lot of people won't vote because they'll be used to not being able to decide who they want to lead them. I bet most people just want to US to leave them alone. How would you feel if the US came along suggesting that Blair was a crap PM and he should be ousted and the US would use their best judgement to elect a new PM for us... I for one wouldn't agree. Who put Saddam in power in the first place and who trained Al Quaeda? Not such a smart move after all eh?
I agree with some of the Bush logic, but I don't think it's right for the Western steamroller to flatten Iraq. There are things called snipers and rather accurate cruise missiles. A low profile war is a much better option in my opinion. I think a large part of the reason that Bush wants to 'give the oil back to the people' is so that Saddam doesn't charge so damn much for it to be exported, giving Saddam incredible wealth. If this money were to be shared more evenly or put into public services the country would be in a lot better shape than it is now.
It's just such a shame that Blair and Bush see it in such black and white terms with no other outcome than total victory. Bush is just finishing what daddy couldn't 12 years ago.
Tom
Associate
^^^^^ as above.
I'm opposed because I suspect the US of doing this for non-ethical reasons. If I thought they were truely doing it just to get rid of saddam I'd be for it, but I think they're doing it for other reasons primarilly and are using the 'ethical' arguement to gain support.
Having seen the current tactics of 'lets fire cruise missiles at saddam himself everytime we think we see him' I'm not overly concerned about large numbers of Iraqi civilian casualties. US/UK forces are being very careful to avoid them occuring, PR nightmare if they don't.
I suspect once this is over (quickly I hope, would like to keep as many of our troops safe from US fire as possible) the US will have had enough vengance for the moment, and will ignore all the other dictators who treat their populations nearly as badly as saddam treats the Iraqi people
that annoys me more than the war.- Status