Washing machine problem

[Merlin5]

I think I'm going to have to buy a new machine. But before shelling £400 I'd like to try and fix mine if possible. It's a very old Hotpoint.

It stops during the rinse cycle. And it doesn't do the super fast final spin cycle afterwards either. I had to wring my clothes by hand the other night. I've managed to get it all working before after messing around a lot with the dial on different rinse/spin cycles, but it's really not having it anymore.

I don't know if there's some blockage? All I see at the back of it is the hot and cold inlet hoses and the outlet hose. Should I disconnect something? If it's some internal circuitry then I'm probably out of my depth.

 

[Merlin5]

Mine has quite often tripped the fuse box. I can't remember at what point of the cycle, perhaps the final spin because it used to really shake the whole thing. I do think I'll need a new machine tbh.

Does it not come up with an error code?

Machines often stop when there is an blockage in the drainage and associated filters.

the first thing I would do is clear out any blockages - then try again

Haha, error codes. I'm not even sure my Hotpoint was made in the 21st century to have such luxuries built in.
Where and how do I check for blockages?

Also, can someone advise me on a new machine. I've got my eye on this Samsung.
https://www.johnlewis.com/samsung-w...-energy-rating-1400rpm-spin-graphite/p3201614

Ideally, I wanted a black machine to match my kitchen units and the Samsung is Graphite. But maybe Samsung will be the most reliable?

Would another Hotpoint, or Hoover, or Beko be any good or stay away from them?
https://www.appliancesdirect.co.uk/st/freestanding-black-washing-machines?rangeattribute=1~179~400

 

[Merlin5]

Apart from the colour, figure out if you need more than a basic machine.

I’ve had very good experiences with Beko appliances - got a 15 year old Beko dishwasher that’s moved 1000 km South with us and is still going strong.

Got a year old condenser tumble dryer from Beko as well which runs like a champ.

Interesting. I got the impression that everyone would say stay away from Beko. I'd always heard they were a bit dodgy, and Indesit as well.

 

[Merlin5]

Old hotpoints used to eat motor bushes, check them first its a nice cheap fix, if they are worn it will stop the drum turning and spinning properly when loaded, secondly does it empty between cycles?

Yes, I think it's emptying properly, but because it's not doing the final spin, it's leaving the clothes more drenched, hence me needing to wring them out to get rid of the excess water.
Where do I check motor bushes? If they're worn, would it stop the rinse cycle completely as is happening?

 

[Merlin5]

Yes its easy enough to check them to rule them out, also take the outlet hose off at the pump and make sure its not full of soap

Heres how to check bushes, make sure plug is out and should be able to check without removing the motor

https://youtu.be/HELgV4KOsT0

Thanks for the link. I took the top and back off it today. By the way, I looked it up and the machine is from the mid 1990s!

Anyway, after struggling to release the carbon brushes until I realised I have to depress a holding clip, I got them free. Photos below of them and the connectors.

Both brush connector plastic casings look a bit burnt. As does one side of the white plastic on one of the brushes. I'm guessing the brushes burnt the connectors as opposed to the connectors being the problem. What do you think, is there enough carbon on these that it should work? The drive belt is intact and turns the drum when I manually rotate the belt, so that's ok. The drum is not turning at all though anymore during rinse cycle but fortunately water does still get pumped out. And because the drum isn't turning anymore, I guess that would account for no final spin cycle being activated. So I guess new brushes would fix it?

Also, there's a photo of the outlet hose connected to some other bits. Would I need to just unclip the outlet hose on the left?

 

[Merlin5]

I just ordered a new pair of brushes for £21.98 from espares, next day delivery. I hope that sorts the problems!

 

[Merlin5]

Yes, the plugs with burnt end have metal spade connectors that connect to the gold contacts on the brush sheaths once the brush sheaths are pushed back into the slots on the motor.

I'm assuming the brush got very heated and caused the plastic on the clip to blacken. I'm hoping that's the case rather than an issue with the connector. Having watched some videos, it seems all old brushes look burnt when being replaced. However, mine is not as worn away as I was expecting. But, one brush falls out the sheath and the other brush doesn't fall out, so maybe that's why there's a problem with them.

I screwed the lid and back covers back on last night just for tidiness and will remove again tomorrow when I get the brushes. Not sure where the commutator is, I'm guessing in the motor, but it was tricky seeing much inside the motor without removing it.

In my 3rd photo, I think the capacitor is that silver cylinder at the bottom right under the 4 black feed hoses.

 

[Merlin5]

Where does the plug with the burnt end lead to? That would concern me and I'd want to get to the bottom of that before tying to fix the rest of the machine.

I believe it's part of the wiring loom connected to a white rectangular block plug that plugs into the motor. Or it might not be connected to that plug, I'll have to look tomorrow.

 

[Merlin5]

That's a good idea about using a tyre air inflator, 50p a pop rather than £6 a can for compressed air. In this video, is the armature he inspects at 1:11 the same as a commutator?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HELgV4KOsT0&t=1m11s


I can undo the bolts to remove the motor, but there's a white plastic lever/latch thing with a thin wire attached which might prove tricky to take off in order to get the motor off, but I'll give it a go.
You can see it top left in this photo. https://i.postimg.cc/jjFX2ZBh/Motor.jpg


Also, just below it, maybe that silver cylinder is the capacitor, or perhaps there's more than one capacitor?

 

[Merlin5]

I used to sell that style Hotpoint Washers many moons ago, I'm surprised its lasted that long. It must be almost 25 years old. IIRC it was made in the UK by Hotpoint themselves instead of some faraway land by Merloni or Whirlpool in this day & age. I'm also surprised you can get spares for them too. I'm glad that its still repairable after all this time & Thanks to the good old EU (bless 'em! ) *new appliances at some point in the future will be easier to repair as spares for machines have to be available for a certain period of time after manufacture in order to avoid a lot of them going to landfill because spares aren't made anymore or are too expensive*

*disclaimer-I read that somewhere on my phones google newsfeed so don't shoot the messenger*

It seems Whirlpool and Hotpoint are one and the same today. You're correct though, all made in the UK and yes, must be around 1995. I had an engineer out a few years ago to fix the dryer part of it, but apart from that, it's been a champion.
https://postimg.cc/jwTBmbfz
https://postimg.cc/dkSDn4kc

I can't see who makes the motor, would it be G.E.C?

 

[Merlin5]

Yes, that's the commutator - if you spin the motor while applying very fine sandpaper to it, it should clean up. Try to keep consistent pressure, but also be gentle to avoid snapping any of the contacts.

I'm not sure what that plastic arm is - it could be a tachometer or tensioner, but I have no idea.

And aye, best keep away from that capacitor.

Can I get a shock from sticking my fingers in the motor to touch the commutator, and why do you say stay away from the capacitor, because of electric shock too?

 

[Merlin5]

Hmm, in that case, if removing the motor involves anything to do with handling the capacitor, I'll just leave the motor where it is, **** the commutator and just buy an ecobubble. Unless of course the machine works properly again after installing the new brushes.

 

[Merlin5]

Yep, about 27 hours now since unplugging it.

 

[Merlin5]

Yes, I'm on the verge of buying a Samsung Ecobubble 7kg or 8kg tomorrow from John Lewis which I should be able to get for £299.

​

@Merlin5
How did it go?

Still not working with new brushes. Waste of £22. I'm currently editing a video to show you what's going on during a cycle including buzzing sounds. I'll upload it later. It's the only way you might be able to give me a better idea of what's wrong with it.

I think my old brushes were probably fine. The length of the new ones is the same meaning my old ones were barely worn down. I smoothed them with sandpaper but then one of the carbon pieces fell out the holder to somewhere at the bottom of the machine while fitting it. Can't be arsed to find it so I installed the new ones. I can't get proper access to clean the commutator, but in the video, I show it being rotated by me rotating the drive belt, so maybe you'll get an idea if it looks ok or not.

There have been a couple of instances today where during a rinse cycle the drum made a few clockwise rotations to agitate the clothes, filled with more water, then drum made a few anticlockwise rotations. Other than that, I've not been able to get it to rotate again. it just fills with water, then stops, I have to manually nudge the dial to move it on at which point it will make a buzzing noise. Move it on again, fill with more water, and so on. Eventually I'm able to get it to drain the water and open the door to an empty drum. In the video you'll hear the gurgling from the pipes under the kitchen sink when it removes the water.

Not just that, but when I use just the dryer part of the machine, again, no drum turning and an even louder buzzing noise. I demonstrate that in the video too.

I've no idea if there's a motor issue, circuit board issue, capacitor, solenoid, or if it's even worth trying to unclip the drainage hose and see if there's a blockage. When you hear the buzzing in the video, perhaps that'll help you tell me if you think there's an electric issue or not. I'm not prepared to mess around with any electrics in it. The only thing left I'm prepared to try is seeing if there's a blockage, but it looks like it might be difficult to get the clip off where the drain hose is connected in the machine.

 

[Merlin5]

Yep, I'm throwing no more money at it. If it's even worth seeing if there's a blockage, that'll be my last ditch effort before binning it.

 

[Merlin5]

Here's my video. I've shortened lots of bits that just go on for several minutes but feel free to skip through it, I only wanted to give an idea of what's happening. Starts with me rotating the commutator. Then the machine during a rinse cycle, the buzzing and no drum turning, stopping and manually moving the dial, water being drained out and opening the door. Then I turn the drier on and you'll hear the louder noise and no rotation.

 

[Merlin5]

darael, in my video, when I get close to the window of the drum, the buzzing is louder than when I move away towards the buttons above it, so I suppose it could be to do with the door lock? I thought it was the motor. The motor is located at the top (top right as you look at the machine from the front) at the back of the machine. But at the end of the video when I'm trying to get the drier to work, the buzzing is much louder. So, I dunno, jammed motor or capacitor problem? Do you think it's worth checking for a blockage or do you think that noise says it's an electrical fault?

I remember this machine kept tripping my fuse box at the time that it was working properly, so personally I think the motor is buggered. It probably is the commutator that needs cleaning to be honest but I've lost the motivation

I looked at every brand today in Currys and tested every door for the most comfortable grip. Hoover, Hotpoint, Bosch, Candy, Indesit, Beko, Grundig, LG, Samsung. Samsung and Grundig have 5 year warranties, LG too I think. Bosch 2 years, and everything else 1 year. Bosch is great, I've got a Bosch oven and it's so reliable. But the only washing machines that particularly appealed to me aesthetically are Samsung, Grundig and LG. Samsung wins it for me on price. They've got an 8kg Samsung Ecobubble reduced to £349 at the moment. If I can get John Lewis to price match and then use my John Lewis £50 gift voucher that I've had for ages, I might be able to get it for £299!

https://postimg.cc/m1M11F56

As my Hotpoint fills with hot and cold water and the Samsung only fills with cold, I've been advised to cap the hot water inlet. Can you possibly tell me where I would get a cap to cap it off and do they come in different sizes? I don't want to pay £25 for them to connect me, I'm guessing it should be easy enough for me to do?

 

[Merlin5]

On mine, looks like there's also a ground wire to unscrew and some pulley mechanism. Can't find my motor on Amazon but espares sell it for £139. Nah, I want the Samsung now. I'll miss having a dryer. Although tbh, I'd not used it for years.

I've been doing a quick Google and the capacitor is something that came out which I didn't think of to be honest. I don't know how to test capacitors properly, but maybe somebody here could?

I had also wondered about the jammed motor and was hoping towards the end of your video you would spin the drum, which you did. It sounds like the drum bearings might be shot, but I can't be sure. Does the drum seem to wiggle a lot if you move it about? Like a sort of clicking noise if you move it up and turn or back and forward. I ask because if you watch your video, you can see a hell of a lot of movement between the drum and door seal at 3:45. If the bearings were gone, this would increase the strain on the motor and also make the machine even more uneconomical to repair.

The makes in your list that I would avoid like the plague are Hoover, Hotpoint, Candy, Indesit, Beko and Grundig. Samsung might be okay, but I'd prefer Bosch or LG.

I also have hot and cold outlets for my washer, but I didn't cap the hot water off when I got my first cold fill machine. I just turned it off using the small red lever and it's been good ever since. If you want to buy a cap, just visit a plumbers merchant and you will probably get one for less than £5.

Connecting the machine is a doddle, connect the cold water pipe to your outlets and push the drainage hose down the grey waste standpipe - just make sure the drainage hose isn't too low.

Interesting, I didn't expect Grundig to be on the bad list.
Oh I won't be testing any capacitors, I'm not confident I wouldn't kill myself, lol. And I think I've seen two capacitors in this machine. I haven't wiggled the drum much but it feels pretty solid to me when I spin it. Thanks for the advice on plumbing it in and capping it, that gives me confidence.

If you check my opening post, there's a photo of my inlet and outlet hoses. That outlet hose raises up, through a gap in the adjoining cupboard and goes to the spigot under the sink, so yeah I believe the height is fine.

 

[Merlin5]

I've disconnected the drain hose from under the sink no problem. But I can't turn the red wheel to disconnect the hot water pipe.

Also, I just found out that turning the longer red lever to 'off' stops all hot water to my sink, so I just needed to turn the smaller red valve next to the wheel. Thing is, I can't undo the red wheel by hand as it's too tight, and I don't have pliers wide enough. I'll need to buy some when I get a cap, probably from toolstation. Can you recommend me a pair of pliers or a tool I'll need to undo that wheel?

Edit: ah, I just found some large adjustable pliers that fit.

 

[Merlin5]

Goddamn, I can't get the bloody thing undone! I've now removed the whole valve and am using my large heavy pliers but can't make it budge. I can make the valve attachment turn but not the red wheel.
Maybe those grips 200sols posted would work better?