Water-cooled mini ITX build!?

[WorLad]

Hi, this will be my first post to the forums!

I've decided to start a small project to change from my current full-tower ATX build to a small ITX build. I'm usually pretty competent when it comes to my builds, but I've never attempted something like this before so I thought I'd ask for some advice.

Firstly, I'll start by telling you my situation. I currently have a custom water-cooled machine in a Corsair 800D. The problem is it's big, full of water and it's heavier than I can lift and I will be moving out this year to study at university so - as much as I hate to say it - I need something more practical. I really like my current computer the way it is, it runs everything and glows UV blue and is pretty much exactly how I want it. I didn't plan to change it at all, except maybe the CPU if the new Haswell chips showed promise (I nearly upgraded to Sandybridge E tbh), but now I pretty much have to do something since the system is HUGE, weighs a tonne and I'll be living in digs in a matter of months!

So, I've decided to get a mini ITX PC, but with a custom water-cooler and that's where it becomes a challenge.

My current specs are;

Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD3R Mobo
Intel Core i7 930 2.66Ghz @ 4.00Ghz
2x POV GTX 670 Ultra Charged in SLi
12GB Patriot Viper DDR3-1600Mhz
Corsair HX1050 Modular 1050W PSU
Corsair Force 3 120GB SSD
WD Caviar Black 2TB SATAIII 6GB/s HDD

The plan is to condense it all into an i7 Ivybridge mini ITX build with a GTX690 and 16GB memory, and water cool it in a black Bitfenix Prodigy. (with mayhems pastel white liquid, in case you wondered! )

The problems are;

1) I have no idea what motherboard would be best suited for my needs, I'm not very clued up on mini-ITX motherboards. I'd like to overclock my CPU but I'm not sure how well a mini-ITX mobo would overclock. Any advice? Preferably one that fits a black and white colour scheme..

2) The CPU I'm choosing is an Ivybridge, though what I really wanted was a socket 2011 (SB-E) but the smallest 2011 mobo is micro ATX and there are very few micro ATX cases with decent water-cooling options. Is Ivy bridge a good upgrade, or do I wait a month or two and get the newer chipset (assuming it comes in mini ITX)?

(Just out of curiosity, did they make 1366 mini-ITX mobos? That would be sweet!)

4) I've chosen to sell my GTX670s (with their original coolers, not with the waterblocks) and get a GTX690, since it's essentially SLi in a single PCIe slot, which is awesome and a lot of the benchmarks are saying it beats 2 670s. The main reason for the 690 is because I want to retain my current SLi performance in the smaller space. Is this a good move or a waste of money (given the lack of space)?

5) I've done many builds and some water-cooling (all full ATX), but never have I built a loop in a mini-ITX case! I've seen pictures of water-cooled ITX rigs and can't work out how they've managed to plumb it all in with such little space! I need a little advice on how I'd do it, what radiators to get and where to put them and such. The Bitfenix prodigy supports a dual 120 rad on the top and a single - I think 140? - rad on the front.
Would it fit an XTX rad or would I need a slim rad and despite the fact the case supports rads on the top and bottom, is there enough tube space for 2 rads (e.g. 1/2" ID Tubing)? I'd like to get as much surface area as possible, so any advice in this area would be great!

5.1) Following on from #5; in my current build I have a D5 pump and top, with an EK-250 tube reservoir. Obviously the res is huge and I'll need a new one, but would that big pump have to go too? Not sure if it's too big since every ITX build I've seen has a little pump/res combo and the big D5 is - to my knowledge - for big loops like the one I currently have.

6) A minor issue, but since I've started here I may as well ask here.. I want to modify the case so that it has a plexi side-panel window, so you can see all the tubing etc.. Never modded a case in my life (in that I've never cut one up, lol) where do I begin? Does anyone do it professionally, because I know I'd screw up royally! My 800D has a huge plexi window and it looks brilliant, I want something like that, but on a tiny case.

That's pretty much everything, I'm very indecisive at the moment and just need some external opinions so I can make a decision! Anybody with some experience with mini-ITX water-cooling and/or ITX motherboards, I'd love to hear your thoughts!

Thanks for taking the time to read this and many thanks in advance for any advice or tips you guys can give me!

Hope you all had a great new year, happy 2013 to you all!

WorLad

 

[passey89]

the ivybridge CPU is amazing 3770K will perform brill and a 690 is roughly teh same as 2 X 670's so performance wise will be about the same.

Watercooling you probably going to have to remove all the hard drive cages TBH.

looks like a 140 or 120 at least will fit at the front.

Go with a bay res combo though will save some space. I know the D5 is amazing but i doubt there will be much room.

 

[WorLad]

6) A minor issue, but since I've started here I may as well ask here.. I want to modify the case so that it has a plexi side-panel window, so you can see all the tubing etc.. Never modded a case in my life (in that I've never cut one up, lol) where do I begin? Does anyone do it professionally, because I know I'd screw up royally! My 800D has a huge plexi window and it looks brilliant, I want something like that, but on a tiny case.

Looks like I've found a place that does it, awesome!!

<LINK REMOVED>

EDIT: Sorry, lol!

 

[Apem]

Worlad remove the link m8

 

[JamesM]

I run a 240mm radiator on the front and want to use a 120mm radiator on the rear.

The 240 wouldn't fit at the top due to the way the EK 670 block fits with it's extender.

I've done something similar to you in shrinking my main WC'd system into a smaller build and haven't looked back. It's lighter, smaller and just as powerful and quiet as before, love it. Prodigy is a brilliant case apart from PSU space, I had trouble fitting my AX750 and i've had to use motherboard standoffs to give me slightly more room.

I went with the Asrock motherboard in the end as the placement for the ports seemed best for me, although it is a squeeze with the 670 back plate and RAM clips.

 

[WorLad]

Awesome little setup!

Yeah, PSU space was something I was a little worried about. My HX1050 is quite a long PSU, I have seen people do it tho so it should be alright.

I'm just wondering how well I'll squeeze a 690 in there, the 670s are tiny with their waterblocks on.. makes me wonder why I've got such a big case to begin with!

So what pump and res have you got in there?

I went with the Asrock motherboard

Just to clarify, you mean the Z77 don't you? Also have you overclocked your CPU on that board?

 

[JamesM]

Yep Z77 motherboard, this one - http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MB-066-AK&groupid=701&catid=5&subcat=2071

I've got my 3770k overclocked to about 4.7GHz on this board without any issues

I'm using this pump/res combo - http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=WC-004-TL&groupid=962&catid=2141&subcat=2145 - which sits just behind the fans at the front

690 will fit quite nicely, watercooling it though might be difficult due to the space.

Still needs tweaking though, I think I might be able to mount the 240 at the top providing I remove the extension from the 670 block, which means i'll be able to mount a 200mm radiator at the front to improve temps but again for the time being, it works ha.

 

[JimboTheGiant]

If space is an issue, you could always mount your rads outside the case. I run a 240 rad on top, and a 140 rad on the rear with the fans attached outside the case in a 'pull' configuration.

My 3570k @ 4.6ghz and HD7950 don't get above 60 degrees even after a couple of hours gaming

 

[3t3P]

yes I need help moving my 700D with its water gear, a 60 x 60cm block weighing over 20kg is the definition of awkward to lift.

I do like the idea of these sleeping beast mini ITX builds and I would have to watercool as well.

Good luck sounds like you're building to a very nice spec.

PICs!

 

[ZXSpectrum]

I am in the same position and have recently dismantled my watercooled rig in my Corsair 700D and just want something small and nippy now. That said i am not after raw gaming power as i dont pc game anymore. I want something nice and compact but unfortunately, although people like them, the Prodigy isnt small at all. I have actually seen MATX Cases that are a fair bit smaller.

 

[WorLad]

yes I need help moving my 700D with its water gear, a 60 x 60cm block weighing over 20kg is the definition of awkward to lift.

I do like the idea of these sleeping beast mini ITX builds and I would have to watercool as well.

Good luck sounds like you're building to a very nice spec.

PICs!

I'll be posting pics when I start, which won't be for a little while yet, maybe a month or so. I have my case so I'll post pics of that in a couple of days when I get my camera back from my friend - if you'd like. It is a black prodigy with a custom plexi side-panel (not an official BitFenix one!).

I am in the same position and have recently dismantled my watercooled rig in my Corsair 700D and just want something small and nippy now. That said i am not after raw gaming power as i dont pc game anymore. I want something nice and compact but unfortunately, although people like them, the Prodigy isnt small at all. I have actually seen MATX Cases that are a fair bit smaller.

Yeah, I know what you mean, the prodigy is fairly large compared to other ITX cases, but it doesn't bother me too much. Firstly I like the space you have for water-cooling, it can fit more radiators than my 800D, which is incredibly impressive. Secondly I'm not in the market for a tiny case, just one that looks good, can be water-cooled and is compact and convenient for university digs; the prodigy ticks all those boxes. When compared with its ITX competition, it's fairly large, but when compared with an 800D it's a considerable difference, especially when you need to get it up 3 flights of stairs.

 

[Diagro]

You can fit a 240 and a 120 rad inside the case.
the back 120 rads fan would need to be mounted on the outside.

i wouldnt recomend a 240 in the front, i feel a 240+120 is enough for the parts you wish to cool.
The best rads for this case are the AlphaCool ones, they are think enough with a fan that you can keep the DVD drive bay in place and use a fan controler.

Put a 230mm fan in the front and block off any venting holes to force the air to exhaust through the radiators and you will have a system that can stay cool when idle with only the 230mm fan running.

this works well as i have this running in mine.

also have a look at 2.5" hdd's to replace the old fat ones, this way you will reduce vibration and noise and also gain so much space.

my build log will be added too in the project section of this forum with a bitfenix case

pop by and have a look later today when i add some more pics


the asrock mobo is not the one i would ever have used, the CPU socket is too close to the ram and pci-e slot.

Spend the extra for the Asus P8Z77-I, its the BEST there is for this format on Z77 chipset

 

[JonJ678]

Take the full size case. I've got an akasa eclipse that must weigh ridiculous amounts full of water and radiators - it's still possible to carry it around. You could empty the water and temporarily remove the radiators if need be.

Watercooling in small boxes sounds exciting, but is an exercise in frustration. People do it - but that doesn't make it wise.

 

[Diagro]

Take the full size case. I've got an akasa eclipse that must weigh ridiculous amounts full of water and radiators - it's still possible to carry it around. You could empty the water and temporarily remove the radiators if need be.

Watercooling in small boxes sounds exciting, but is an exercise in frustration. People do it - but that doesn't make it wise.

Huh?

De-Build and then rebuild a water loop when moving a case? HAHA

Small Water cooling builds in Small cases are not frustrating and there is nothing to back up your statement of not being wise...

just because you cant do it doesn't mean its not a good thing to do

 

[JonJ678]

Just because I say it isn't wise doesn't mean I can't do it

You end up with a very compact box. It's a bit prone to overheating and not quite as quiet as a larger box. You can't get temperatures as low as you can't fit as much radiator surface area. It's a tear-down-and-rebuild-from-scratch job if you need to change the graphics card. I don't think it's worth the hassle.

I'm fond of my SG05, but it's air cooled. Similarly I'm fond of the HP microserver, but I'm not going to water cool that any time soon either. Small form factors are nice, but watercooling them is not the optimal choice.

I wouldn't pull a loop apart to move the case either, but it's an option if the user can't lift their case. Neither do I drain it, but that's because I have faith in the compression fittings. If it might leak, I'd take the water out first.

 

[WorLad]

You end up with a very compact box. It's a bit prone to overheating and not quite as quiet as a larger box. You can't get temperatures as low as you can't fit as much radiator surface area. It's a tear-down-and-rebuild-from-scratch job if you need to change the graphics card. I don't think it's worth the hassle.

Firstly if you want it to be quiet you get high-pressure, low RPM fans; you don't need 2000RPM hair dryers to keep a system cool.

Secondly, you can in-fact fit more radiator surface area in the BitFenix Prodigy than I have in my 800D; a 240 in the top and a 140, 200 or 240 in the front would give you more surface area than a triple-rad, which is more than sufficient to cool what I intend to cool.

Thirdly, if you are water-cooling, changing your graphics card(s) is going to be more of a hassle than an air cooled card whatever form factor you choose, but it's certainly not a "tear-down-and-rebuild-from-scratch job", it's more of a "drain your loop and remove the card, fit water-block to new card, fit new card into system, refill loop" it's only one part of a loop so I don't see where you get "rebuild-from-scratch" from.

Small form factors are nice, but watercooling them is not the optimal choice.

Water-cooling is probably more appropriate in a small form factor system if anything. With the small amount of space in those cases you can barely get enough airflow through it to cool a single GPU graphics card, never mind a dual-GPU card, which makes water-cooling an ideal solution to cool such a small form factor computer.

 

[JonJ678]

Quiet comes from running the computer at higher temperature or from having greater radiator surface area. Those are your only options. Since pressure scales with the square of rpm for a computer fan, high pressure & low rpm is a somewhat magical combination.

Something has gone terribly wrong if the smaller box has greater radiator surface area than the bigger box. Bigger box, more radiators. I don't know why you would have a big case with tiny radiators.

Watercooled graphics cards are more annoying to change out than air cooled ones. It's easier to get at the card in a big case than in a small case, though a well-designed small case may well allow better access than a badly-designed big one. A m-itx case could easily need you to remove the optical drive and power supply to get at the graphics card - perhaps this generalisation does not apply to the particular cases you have in mind.

I have the silverstone sg05 in mind when I say air cooling is optimal. The graphics card pulls air in through side vents and throws it out the back. The psu draws air in from outside and throws it out the back. A 120mm fan on the front passes air over the board and through the cpu heatsink. That's pretty good. The only improvement possible would be to put a 120mm radiator in the front and cool the cpu with it (no significant change) or the cpu and gpu (which would run both hotter).

In general I'm strongly in favour of water cooling. You can achieve a thermal control using pipes that is essentially impossible when trying to direct air flow through the case. However, you need significant amounts of volume to fit the radiators. This can be difficult to find in a small case. I've looked at a few photos of the prodigy since first replying to this thread and it's enormous - 36 litres compared to the Silverstone's 11. This goes some way towards explaining why you think water cooling a small form factor is a good plan, you've chosen a very big small box.

 

[ZXSpectrum]

Another option i suppose is something like a Lian Li PC-V351B. Its MATX But only a few cm bigger than some Mitx cases and if you used a Mitx board would give you a little more room for watercooling? Bayres would fit nicely.

 

[Sayso]

Another option i suppose is something like a Lian Li PC-V351B. Its MATX But only a few cm bigger than some Mitx cases and if you used a Mitx board would give you a little more room for watercooling? Bayres would fit nicely.

Ive had a couple of watercool adventures with those, you can only fit a double rad in the front which means blowing not air across the motherboard which pushes up temps, i wouldn't bother.

 

[WorLad]

Ok guys, what do you think of this;

At the top
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=WC-032-BX

At the front
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=WC-014-BX&groupid=962&catid=1523&subcat=1524

I would usually go for EK but thought these lower profile rads would save some space.
Also, I'm going for a 140 in the front in the hopes that I'll be able to squeeze in the bottom section of the hard-drive bays. The fans will all be in a pull config from front to top and back.


Here's some photos of the case anyway.. not like you haven't seen a BitFenix Prodigy before, but this is mine, lol! There's also a colourful example of what I intend to do and where everything could go.

The first photo is blurry since it was done in a hurry, but I'll be posting more soon anyway!







This is the pump/res combo:
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=WC-006-TL