Watercooling, where to start?

[Vidar]

Am planning some major upgrades in the not so distant future, including moving to the Corsair 800D case, changing to the asus rampage 2 extreme and adding a second 4870 HD in crossfire..... Obviously im planning on overclocking and would like to get into water cooling, though it is something I have never attempted before....

Ive searched the net for some guides but they never seem to look anything like the pics you guys seem to post so was hoping for advice on what to do and what to get?

Any help would be seriously appreciated!

 

[ejr22]

My advice would be to not bother with the expensive case, also not to bother with the "extreme overclocking" mobo - a cheaper one/the one you already own will do the same job (unless you are some sort of benchmarking enthusiast who needs to reach 4.5GHz+). Instead, with the money saved from not buying the aforementioned 2 items, plus some money from selling your current 4870, buy a 5850/5870/5890 and forget about watercooling for now.

This way you'll actually be able to experience/see a benefit to your money spent.

Just a thought.

 

[JonJ678]

Lies! Sensible ones perhaps, but still. Water cooling is nothing if not an experience. I agree that buying the corsair case is probably a bad call, there are too many cheaper ones that work just as well.

You need to decide why you want to use water, as it affects what components. As does budget, a lot of people go second hand for much of their first loop. The main three are quiet, higher overclocks, looks cool. Most people on here will compromise, generally meaning 25mm fans on thick (approx 60mm thick) radiators, preferably thermochill.

As long as you can identify each part of a photo of a water cooled computer you're probably going to be alright. The normal approach is getting blocks which fit whatever you want to cool, whatever radiators you can fit in your case and whatever pump you can afford. You then plumb them together in whatever order you wish and hope it doesn't leak.

So, why do you want to do this, and what budget? Specific questions are generally better, in part because they show you've read around the idea and understood most of what you've read.

 

[Vidar]

I understand that there are much cheaper alternatives to both the Asus rampage 2 extreme and the corsair 800d, im currently using an Antec 902 with a foxconn renaisance mobo.... At the end of the day my pc is my hobby, I love learning new things about them specifically hardware related things...

Ive built a good few air cooled systems but I really want to try my hand at watercooling, because its something new, not to mention when I do come to try overclocking im reasonably sure that having a water cooling loop will allow me to obtain better results. I also think that it looks cool...

My budget I would say would be £300 but that can be improved if need be given more time... I mainly need a list of components that would work well together specifically inside the 800D as that is the case I really do like!

 

[DeadMan]

I dont think you can go wrong with a Rampage 2 Extreme, I have been bitten by the "buy cheap, buy twice" on numerous occasions and would strongly advise not skimping on your motherboard.

 

[Vidar]

Like wise, Fact is if it wasnt for the fact I can not seem to Flash my bios Id remain perfectly happy with the Foxxconn Renaisannce

 

[95thrifles]

Are you after cooling just CPU? GPUs too? all mosfets etc?

 

[WJA96]

If you're going to get a water cooling case, you could do an awful lot worse than the Corsair 800D.

It's pre-cut for a Thermochill PA120.3 (15mm) so that's easily sorted out. You want CrossFireX'd GPUs, so I'm thinking at least 2 loops.

This is going to be a bit controvertial, but I'm going to suggest a PA120.1 on the back of the case with two Akasa Apache fans and a PWM splitter driven off the CPU PWM header. A PA120.1 is loads to cool even a seriously overclocked i920 D0.

As you're likely going with the REII, you can get an EK motherboard monoblock and I'd put that in the loop with the two graphics cards onto the PA120.3.

To keep it all moving around the pipes, I'd get an XSPC dual DDC 5.25" Reservoir (the dual filler one so the loops are actually separate) and a pair of DDC pumps. Both 18W for this. One because you have a lot of blocks in the GPU/Motherboard loop and a second one because if you have enough flow, the EK Supreme is a very good CPU block.

Pipe that lot up with 7/16" Masterkleer tubing on 1/2" ID Danger Den Fatboy barbs and you'll do fine I reckon.

 

[JonJ678]

This is going to be a bit controversial, but...

To keep it all moving around the pipes, I'd get an XSPC dual DDC 5.25" Reservoir (the dual filler one so the loops are actually separate)

On the controversial note, I take it you expect to by lynched by the H50 users in terms of degree/£, and doubted by the water coolers who won't run an i7 without a 240 radiator? I'm going to be boring and say I agree with you.

Except for the separate loops part. I believe the water temperature in a loop with a 360 and two 4870s will be lower than the water temperature in a loop with a 120 with one 920 processor. As such I strongly feel the two loops should be joined at the reservoir, let the graphics cards run that bit hotter to keep the processor that bit colder. I would personally want the ek multioption reservoir instead. I may however have misjudged the heat output of a 4870, can it really be almost 1.5 times that of an overclocked 920?

Why not go the next step and put pwm fans on the triple as well, run the entire damned lot of them off the cpu header? Daisy chaining two of the akasa splitters, four of them if you want push-pull on the triple radiator.

 

[Vidar]

On the controversial note, I take it you expect to by lynched by the H50 users in terms of degree/£, and doubted by the water coolers who won't run an i7 without a 240 radiator? I'm going to be boring and say I agree with you.

Except for the separate loops part. I believe the water temperature in a loop with a 360 and two 4870s will be lower than the water temperature in a loop with a 120 with one 920 processor. As such I strongly feel the two loops should be joined at the reservoir, let the graphics cards run that bit hotter to keep the processor that bit colder. I would personally want the ek multioption reservoir instead. I may however have misjudged the heat output of a 4870, can it really be almost 1.5 times that of an overclocked 920?

Why not go the next step and put pwm fans on the triple as well, run the entire damned lot of them off the cpu header? Daisy chaining two of the akasa splitters, four of them if you want push-pull on the triple radiator.

Wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooosh thats the sound of that post going straight over my head like a fighter jet

 

[DavyBoy]

LoL!!

 

[Hades]

For a first loop I'd strongly suggest a decent kit whcih you can upgrade over time. I started with a Swiftech kit (forget the name... Apex Extreme/Ultra/Something) and then upgraded parts over time. The benefit of doing it this way is that everything fits each other and there are clear instructions. Once you've got the hang of it then a semi-decent kit can form the basis of the next build, with improved parts such as a better rad or pump for example.

 

[WJA96]

On the controversial note, I take it you expect to by lynched by the H50 users in terms of degree/£

A PA120.1 is nothing like the radiator fitted to an H50. Then I'm using a very high backpressure block with nozzles. Performance will comfortably exceed that of an H50.

Except for the separate loops part. I believe the water temperature in a loop with a 360 and two 4870s will be lower than the water temperature in a loop with a 120 with one 920 processor. As such I strongly feel the two loops should be joined at the reservoir, let the graphics cards run that bit hotter to keep the processor that bit colder.

OK - change the reservoir/pump setup for a Typhoon III with a Laing D5 Vario bolted to it. Job done.

Why not go the next step and put pwm fans on the triple as well, run the entire damned lot of them off the cpu header? Daisy chaining two of the akasa splitters, four of them if you want push-pull on the triple radiator.

Good idea - that way everything ramps up and down with the CPU load.

 

[JonJ678]

I'm aware of the differences, but it remains that pa120.1, 18Wddc and an ek supreme will cost £150 and the H50 costs £60. Pound per degree I believe the H50 wins.

Not so sure about this. The argument for two loops was to expose the cpu block to as high a water pressure as is practical. I know the typhoon 3 is very efficient at improving the performance of a D5, but it applies the same pressure to each loop as they're fed from a common high pressure reservoir. I'm not confident enough with fluid dynamics to be certain either way, but I don't think you'd see the same performance as with a ddc/ek supreme sub loop.

Not cpu load, cpu temperature. So an intense gpu load will increase water temp, which increases cpu temp, and so the fans turn faster. /pedantic

 

[DeadMan]

Like wise, Fact is if it wasnt for the fact I can not seem to Flash my bios Id remain perfectly happy with the Foxxconn Renaisannce

I know exactly what you mean, although I can at least still update the bios on my renaissance.

The fact is the current bios of the renaissance has some very odd issues almost like its disconnected from the motherboard or operating on another motherboard in another dimension... e.g after updating the bios the board will not boot until it has been disconnected from the power for at least an hour.

You need to do a full restart to commit even the smallest of changes in the bios, it really is that painfull, make too many changes and it wont boot until you reset to defaults (which takes another 1 hour off the juice)

I have now got the renaissance stable and am using it as a file server (lets hope it behaves).

Conclusion: I will never buy another foxconn board again EVER!.

 

[DeadMan]

If you're going to get a water cooling case, you could do an awful lot worse than the Corsair 800D.

It's pre-cut for a Thermochill PA120.3 (15mm) so that's easily sorted out. You want CrossFireX'd GPUs, so I'm thinking at least 2 loops.

This is going to be a bit controvertial, but I'm going to suggest a PA120.1 on the back of the case with two Akasa Apache fans and a PWM splitter driven off the CPU PWM header. A PA120.1 is loads to cool even a seriously overclocked i920 D0.

As you're likely going with the REII, you can get an EK motherboard monoblock and I'd put that in the loop with the two graphics cards onto the PA120.3.

To keep it all moving around the pipes, I'd get an XSPC dual DDC 5.25" Reservoir (the dual filler one so the loops are actually separate) and a pair of DDC pumps. Both 18W for this. One because you have a lot of blocks in the GPU/Motherboard loop and a second one because if you have enough flow, the EK Supreme is a very good CPU block.

Pipe that lot up with 7/16" Masterkleer tubing on 1/2" ID Danger Den Fatboy barbs and you'll do fine I reckon.

I would stay away from the EK supreme as IMHO is a high restriction pig.

Use the XSPC Delta V3 and much better high flow-rate high performance choice.

The EK full cover x58 block will invalidate your warranty as you have to remove the whole heat pipe assembly including north bridge, south bridge and mosfet cooling so you will need the EK mosfet blocks as well.

Another alternate which does not invalidate your warranty is to buy a fusion water block which replaces the north bridge heat sink only.

 

[shadowscotland]

Pound per degree JonJ? - this is watercooling we are taking about - air cooling wins hands down on pound per degree every time.
Additional cooling/lower noise profile/bling is what watercooling is about (as you said yourself).
H50 is a good bit of kit - and I full support your point of view - but I don't think it OP specific - nw skinhead whats to tweek!

Lower temps at same noise profile - watercooling wins
lower load temps (especially gpus) - watercooling wins
lower noise - passive watercooling wins
bang for buck - AIR, every time.
easy of oc'ing - AIR every time

Typhoon3 with twin loops
high restriction single cpu block + PA/RX120 in one loop
low restriction gpu's + PA/RX360 on other
mosfet can look after it's self with that many rad fans

Parrallel loops should then be ballanced and you will see real gain in gpu temps.
A twin card system is a gaming platform - so the i7 is NEVER going to be maxed out.
personally I'd ditch it and the mobo and get a duel core (but thats
controvertial too it seams)

Single high flow loop is also an option, but tbh aircooling will acheive simular results hence why duel loops are being surgested

 

[DeadMan]

Heh I just bought a typhoon3.. figures..

Sorry m8 I dont agree with the high restriction single block for CPU.

 

[WJA96]

The EK full cover x58 block will invalidate your warranty as you have to remove the whole heat pipe assembly including north bridge, south bridge and mosfet cooling so you will need the EK mosfet blocks as well.

The one (REII) kit does the whole board. As far as I'm aware, only Gigabyte allow you to remove the motherboard chipset cooling and not invalidate the warranty. So that's another reason to buy Gigabyte over ASUS.

 

[WJA96]

Sorry m8 I dont agree with the high restriction single block for CPU.

That's OK - you have every right to an opinion. The EK Supreme is a very strange beast. It needs a very particular set of circumstances to perform and it only really works properly if you set it up right.

There are lots of other blocks on the market - the new Swiftech XT, the Heatkiller 3 etc and they're fine but I personally like the EK Supreme.