Wayne Rooney

Lets try some English here, I didn't say he would be good regardless of the effort put in, lets requote it again shall we

Ronaldo comes across as someone who is gifted, Beckham doesn't.

:D

Indeed, precisely what I said you stated......and what I disagreed with, Beckham is a gifted Footballer, he simply is not comparable to Ronaldo, both of who could be compared with regard to their work ethic however, but not their playing style or relative excellence given their disparate playing styles and positional play. (he was a right midfielder, not a right winger...like Kanchelskis who he replaced despite your trying to shoehorn him into a position that suits your argument better)

Do I think Ronaldo is a better player than Beckham, then the answer is yes, however that was not what I was disputing despite your attempt to make it appear so.

Ironic given your stated intolerance of misrepresentation....
 
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This is one of the most embarrassing things I have ever seen.

DM is blatently that patronising John Smith drinking pleb that won't shut up about useless football information in the pub.
 
Im not sure if i started this argument but my point would be that beckham would never come back from pre season 7lb over and would always be working hard on his fitness, and look at him now, thirty odd and still running in midfield.

Ronaldo wouldn't come back from training 7 pounds over but old ronaldo and adriano would. Both talented but constrained by their own work ethic.
 
I'm disappointed that DM threw in the towel so early. :(

I'm out anyway, back to Wazza.....

All this talk about Rooney's poor start to the season..but we are only three games in, only one of which he played, the second he was injured, and the third he was out with that injury sustained in the previous....

How on earth do people objectively define that as a poor start predicated by poor fitness and commitment?
 
Ronaldo has better genetics than beckham when it comes to football, he's absolute mutant he's quicker, stronger, more agile, probably has a better lung capacity. He would be a good footballer whether he was training for a few hours a day or 6 hours a day.

Becks has had to become talented at dead ball situations and curled crossing to carve out his niche on football. That takes hours of off field training to do...
 
Quality entertainment, worth it just to see DM get owned :D

Back on topic though, I genuinely hope and think Rooney has had a bit of a wakeup call, from Fergie, from RVP and from the media and the public and I think he is going to come back much stronger for it.
 
Im not sure if i started this argument but my point would be that beckham would never come back from pre season 7lb over and would always be working hard on his fitness, and look at him now, thirty odd and still running in midfield.

Ronaldo wouldn't come back from training 7 pounds over but old ronaldo and adriano would. Both talented but constrained by their own work ethic.

Rooney doesn't have a modeling career on the side like Beckham or Ronaldo though does he.

Oh and

Im not sure if i started this argument

More than likely ;)
 
Rooney doesn't have a modeling career on the side like Beckham or Ronaldo though does he.

Surely that irrelevant. Either you are a dedicated committed pro or not? It's no excuse, even with injuries you can still keep the weight off and stay fit. None of these excuses about needing 3 or 4 games to 'get back into it'.

He has years after his career is over to let go. Look at Barnes now. He was always in decent shape, didn't drink or smoke and said his career would be over at 32 so had time to do all stuff once it was over. Until then he said it was his duty to stay in shape for the club paying his wages.

I think Rooney will have a fall out again this year, but right now Fergie cannot afford to get rid of him. I'm guessing when he gets chance he will enjoy replacing him and showing him the door.

There is no excuse for his constant lack of fitness after a small lay off. It's a shame because he could be so much better.
 
Manchester United striker Wayne Rooney says submitting a transfer request at Old Trafford two years ago was the biggest mistake of his career.

Rooney issued a statement in September 2010 in which he questioned the Red Devils' ability to attract top players and indicated he wanted to leave because the club could not match his ambitions.

Two days later, though, the England international performed a dramatic U-turn and signed a new five-year contract at Old Trafford.

He looks back on the whole affair now with a sense of regret.

In his latest autobiography, which is being serialised by the Daily Mirror, he recalls: "In September 2010 my ankle puts me on the sidelines.

"I get frustrated with myself, my game, my injury, and everything around me.

"I'm stuck in a cycle of bad form but I can't get out of it.

"And that's when I make the biggest mistake of my football career.

"In October, I release a statement which publicly questions my happiness at Old Trafford. Am I better off elsewhere?

"Everyone makes a fuss. There are discussions inside United to sort out the issue, people outside United chuck their opinions around, but the thing is, nobody really knows what's going on in my life.

"None of them understand where I am in my career. They don't know where my head's at.

"The only person who really knows what's going on in there is me, but even I'm not sure what I want."

He added of the involvement of United boss Sir Alex Ferguson in his decision to stay: "Then the manager has his say. 'Sometimes you look in a field and you see a cow and you think it's a better cow than the one you have in your own field. And it never really works that way'.

"He's saying the grass isn't always greener, and he's right.

"I like what's in my field. I'm wrong. United want the same as me: trophies, success, to be the best."

Incidently Danny you voicing your latest opinion on matters involving Man Utd couldn't of actually come at a better time
 
Incidently Danny you voicing your latest opinion on matters involving Man Utd couldn't of actually come at a better time

Why are non united fans not allowed an opinion?

If you are referring to that article and his relationship to Fergie, well Beckham still licks at Fergies ring at every opportunity but it didn't stop Fergie extracting revenge on him when he was crossed.

Besides how long ago was that penned? Things have changed at United since those words were taken. If he's not an automatic starter I'm sure there will be a falling out.

He fell out with Moyes because moyes was concerned about his fitness and how he was looking after himself. Years on and it seems to most that he clearly lets him go when not playing?
 
You do realise the summer he says he came back 7 pounds overweight was back in 2009 when he made his best ever goalscoring start to a season?
 
Anyway, I seem to be repeating myself somewhat and really I have said pretty much all there is to say....sufficed to say, I disagree with you on several points regarding your assessment of Beckham and the way in which you assessed relative attributes across disparate players and playing styles to try to illustrate it.

On the general point that some players are better than others, have different work ethics, playing attributes, that some need to work harder than others to attain the same level of play etc...I do not disagree., only that Beckham necessarily falls into the latter category.


It really doesn't matter what YOU THINK, I have repeated several times now that I wasn't in any way comparing position, I've made this clear as day how and why I was comparing them. Even if you misunderstood I've now several times over explained that I was NOT comparing positions, and you are still saying you disagree with how I compared positions? Here's a hint, if I said beckham isn't known for his strength, and Toure is... and it helps massively in Toure's game... then you might have a point. However I only compared the fact that player X is known for his strength vs player Y who wasn't known for his strength.


Oh look remove the name and you see the point, a player known, or not, for his strength, his name, position is utterly irrelevant. You WANT it to be relevant because when you decided to argue the toss over my saying Beckham wasn't known for his strength, you had no leg to stand on because its as absurd as saying Beckham is known for his header.... oh wait you did that too, its as absurd as saying Beckham didn't have to work harder than everyone else to get where he was despite basically everyone in the football world saying he worked much harder than everyone else.... damn. Since you made such ridiculous bold claims you've tried to misinterpret every single thing I've posted to somehow make your initial claims less ridiculous.

Here's another hint, even if I did compare the position of players, it would make my argument weak, it wouldn't make your defence of Beckham's physical abilities any less ridiculous ;)

You are however distracting everyone very competently, so congratulations on being one of those guys who argues through circles of obtuse minutiae

But they only thing that really matters is I said Beckham wasn't known for his strength and you argued and suggested he was known for his strength and headering.


FOr the record, check the link again, it gives AVERAGE position in a game as well as starting position, his AVERAGE position throughout the whole game is inside the centre circle. He does drift right sometimes, he drifts forwards, back and left also... which is why his AVERAGE POSITION through the whole game is bang on central midfield.
 
You do realise the summer he says he came back 7 pounds overweight was back in 2009 when he made his best ever goalscoring start to a season?

I'm not referring to his weight in 2009 or 7lbs. I'm referring to the fact that whenever he gets a short lay off, he comes back looking about as sharp and fit as Ricky Hatton between fights.

Fergie mentions how he needs games to get up and running again. Why? Most other players that get a rest before a national tournament we would be saying it's good they are rested. Not him, he needs 3 or 4 games to get up to speed?

If he had played more games in the run in last year, the excuse he was tired would have been used. I'm not questioning his ability, I question his desire to make the most out of his ability and push on further as a pro and athlete.

I see no reason why any player who wants to be at the top of their game would be smoking and that's not a criticism levelled at just rooney. Unless he uses it like a model to help suppress appetite and keep the weight off ;)
 
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