web design cost?

What happens when you guys with standard reseller accounts get a smart customer who does a myipneighbors check?

If they would have seen 1000 other websites on there serious questions would have been asked. When you move up a level to the >£5,000 bracket people become more cautious - and rightly so, and want to know what they're getting is solid.

I'm sorry but this is a statement of the obvious.

If you have a tiny business with a low traffic site, you can get away with a shared host. If you have a small/medium business with a healthy traffic level, a VPS or a cheap dedicated server may be in order. If you run amazon.com, you have a series of distributed server clusters with failover. If you run Google, you have the worlds biggest web-server farm....

Should Google come knocking, I'll not try to fob them off with £12 shared hosting. Equally should the OPs client need hosting for their £350 website, I'll not offer them a dedicated server.
 
A great approach. But again, it's marketing.
How many marketing firms now have SEO departments? It's certainly growing. Fundamentally SEO is marketing. Its about bringing the website to the attention of as many people as possible and then getting them converting (I'm not talking about SEM).

Even if you were on a retainer, you can't just go and decide to run such a competition in the customers name. Sure you can suggest the idea, but how many biscuit manufacturers hand their marketing lead to the external web developer? Great idea - on that would get mentioned in an regular review. Not one you would run within the 1st 3 months after launch.
I make sure to have a meeting with each client once a month, at the same time as handing over the report of what I've done that month and my invoice, to go through what I plan to do in the next month. I have minimum hours each month, which I tend to use for the more normal SEO activities, but quite often I'll also encourage them to pay for an extra X hours that month to do X or Y idea. Sometimes they'll just ask me to do whichever concept I've come up with out of my normal hours for that month - so I'll do a little less linkbuilding etc that month. One thing I've grown to expect is clients changing their mind about what they want from month to month - so it doesn't surprise me when in month 2 they say 'Why is nobody looking at X, I want to sell loads of these' when they've never even mentioned them before - I might suggest a microsite at that point.


I could be wrong, but I'd speculate that the vast majority or sites (not companies) are fairly static.
The vast majority are - if they weren't the the sites that aren't, that have good SEOs on board, would find it much harder to out-rank those other sites.

If I am wrong, it means that you'd only have a portfolio of half a dozen clients and you'd be incredibly rich. Every site you develop has built-in residuals; after half a dozen sites have been developed, you'd have no time in you working to do any new developments; you'd be spending all your time doing SEO and running their marketing campaigns.
I don't do much development and mainly SEO at the moment (I've previously worked in an SEO department at a big developers). Web-development I see as a way to get the customer in the door - SEO is where the money is though.

How often do you run these reports and how much do they pay you?
I present a report of activity for that month, which compares it to the month before and flags any new trends, each month. I charge my normal hourly rate for doing so on the basis of whilst it's not difficult to generate these reports, the skill is in making use of the data in a way that's more than just saying 'great we got more visitors!'. Nobody's ever had a problem with this - especially as the reports never usually take that long to prepare.

A company I work for was in the position of actually not wanting to generate any further business... Ok, it's an unusual scenario, but my point is, not every site is a new Amazon.com, or a new Digg... For some companies, websites are like printed materials, advertisements or telephone lines - another means of communicating with customers.
Oh I absolutely agree. It is unusual for a business to not want any more customers, but equally not every website is a new amazon. In fact none of my clients at the moment has any direct web sales - they all provide services of a type that are unsuitable to be sold without speaking to the person first or are charities - yet they are still trying to convert. I can't think of a business (except one that literally that cannot take any more customers) that is not looking to convert customers. The companies I currently work for could just have a website listing their services and contact details - but that wouldn't get anyone finding their website nor contacting them. The fact that the website's appear near top of the SERPS for competitive terms, that I've helped develop ancillary free services etc, means that people go there and thus they have more customers.


Back to the OPs post; his client is probably a new startup or a cottage industry. £600 for website and hosting is possibly a small fortune to them.
£600 isn't necessarily that much. If the OP is really concerned that they wont bite offer a CFA whereby certain bonuses are attached to either visitor numbers or (more likely) levels of conversion. I don't do it any more because it's an added complexity that can be annoying, but offering a customer a low rate and then saying that they only have to pay you your 'regular' rate if it works out well for them proves you have confidence in what you're doing.
 
How many marketing firms now have SEO departments? It's certainly growing. Fundamentally SEO is marketing. Its about bringing the website to the attention of as many people as possible and then getting them converting (I'm not talking about SEM).

Sadly, too many marketing firms not only have SEO people (fair play) but also do 'web design' - that is they use Dreamweaver to cobble together a slow, non-validating, IE-centric, ******* child of satan site and piggy-back onto the back of existing print & media work they do for their clients. One of my companies suffered in this way. And when I think of the money they paid for the piece of dog poo that was delivered....

Anyway, my point is that marketing & development are not leagues apart (with SEO bang in the middle) and there are some natural overlaps. But surprisingly few businesses will retain marketing consultants (or SEO consultants or web developers for that matter). They pay money for a job and that is where it ends.



I don't do much development and mainly SEO at the moment (I've previously worked in an SEO department at a big developers).

Your posts suggest as much; an SEO consultant is hardly going to play down the role of SEO is he? lol

How many of your current (regular) clients
have a website costing < £600? Very few I'll suspect.

The point I'm trying to hammer home is that you are sitting comfortably, working for medium-large orgs who have a understandable use for your skills.

But the majority of businesses are on the small side and couldn't justify your fees (at this stage) no matter how much you think you can do for them.

£600 isn't necessarily that much. If the OP is really concerned that they wont bite offer a CFA whereby certain bonuses are attached to either visitor numbers or (more likely) levels of conversion. I don't do it any more because it's an added complexity that can be annoying, but offering a customer a low rate and then saying that they only have to pay you your 'regular' rate if it works out well for them proves you have confidence in what you're doing.

This is a good approach, and can be quite lucrative - let's face it, the residuals are the most profitable part of the biz. But I'm still impressed that the OPs client accepted any charge for SEO - not that it's not useful or needed, simply that in that area of the market, clients generally are very reserved.
 
The point I'm trying to hammer home is that you are sitting comfortably, working for medium-large orgs who have a understandable use for your skills.

Actually now my clients tend to be small-medium. I get away with doing a decent number of hours for small businesses because there's a ROI for them (they tend to be offering professional services and as such even one more customer for them is highly valuable). In fact I've simply said to one before, when they were trying to negotiate my price down, if I'm costing you more than you're making from my efforts then, as with any form of advertising, why are you paying me - and promptly put a clause, allowing them to terminate with 1 months notice for any reason, in to the contract. They're still a client, which I think proved my point to them.

When I was working in the SEO department we were dealing with high-street names type companies and the SEO used for that was completely different, but just as fun. At one point, for example, I was in charge of a network of about 40 blogs that were connected to us yet untraceable (as far as Google was concerned), had tons of readership, made enough money to pay for themselves and were useful to give, periodically, a ton of high value links to our clients. Was it a bit grey hat? If Google had found out absolutely, but there was literally no way for Google to find out so no, I don't think it was :) .
 
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I am finding this topic very interesting to reading about how much people charge for a web design. So as a professional web designer, do you all code from scratch using your own knowledge of html, css, flash, php, etc? Does this all get done under Notepad, Dreamweaver, FrontPage or any other web designing software?

Don’t you think charging anything near the price of £80 or so is like daylight robbery? Why is it so expensive?
 
Don’t you think charging anything near the price of £80 or so is like daylight robbery? Why is it so expensive?

daylight robbery to who? it all depends on so many variables that £80 could be a good price for one person, but a terrible for another.

again so many reasons about why it's expensive, but one main reason i would say is the gain from it allows it to be so expensive. some companies will make millions from a simple website, so it would only be fair the person who designed it gets a good chunk of that.
 
daylight robbery to who? it all depends on so many variables that £80 could be a good price for one person, but a terrible for another.

again so many reasons about why it's expensive, but one main reason i would say is the gain from it allows it to be so expensive. some companies will make millions from a simple website, so it would only be fair the person who designed it gets a good chunk of that.

:eek: I see were you are coming from. I never knew it involves so much money. Sounds like a lot of people are doing it. How hard is the job?

As there are so many people doing it, is it harder to get recognition?
 
I am finding this topic very interesting to reading about how much people charge for a web design. So as a professional web designer, do you all code from scratch using your own knowledge of html, css, flash, php, etc? Does this all get done under Notepad, Dreamweaver, FrontPage or any other web designing software?
only if the design and code has not been used elsewhere before. This "code from scratch" is a complete myth; these are not tailor made suits we are talking about, this is software. I do not want to charge my clients for re-inventing the wheel. I want them to get what they want, as soon as I can possibly (and efficiently) deliver it.
Don’t you think charging anything near the price of £80 or so is like daylight robbery? Why is it so expensive?
£80 would get you about 45mins of one developer's time from my workshop.
 
Ok I was in work today and I couldn’t help thinking about what is the most popular coding format to use for a web site i.e., Php, JavaScript, Css, Xhtml, Flash, etc...? And as professionals I was hoping you could teach me a little bit.


I do not create sites for a living but for my own personal use I have been doing it for about 5 years now and gotten nowhere with it, but everything I do know about coding has all been from this site www.w3schools.com and doing it all within dream weaver. Is there any where I could get more advanced tutorials so I can better myself?
 
Martin_Man - current state of play for us is html/css/photoshop essential - php is probably the most common for server use (but asp/jsp very popular in the corporate sector).

More importantly masses of migration is happening moving things that were traditionally server-side (eg php, jsp, asp) and also things that were flash towards javascript using some of the new frameworks.

Hence, jQuery is becoming essential part of web design, and it's creating a few 'frowns' when things are done in flash that could be achieved in jQuery (javascript's nicer for lots of reasons - seo being one of them)

skippi90 - yeah, £150-200p/h is totally normal (have seen contracts for £900 p/h), but this is obviously based on reputation and skills. I'd start at £40 p/h or offer a flat rate to really force you to increase your efficiency.

Some designers just stick to the creative stuff, but you'll get far bigger contracts and far more success if you try to offer business consultancy - ie understand where the business is going, what they need and build a design around that.
 
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Martin_Man - current state of play for us is html/css/photoshop essential - php is probably the most common for server use (but asp/jsp very popular in the corporate sector).

More importantly masses of migration is happening moving things that were traditionally server-side (eg php, jsp, asp) and also things that were flash towards javascript using some of the new frameworks.

Hence, jQuery is becoming essential part of web design, and it's creating a few 'frowns' when things are done in flash that could be achieved in jQuery (javascript's nicer for lots of reasons - seo being one of them)

skippi90 - yeah, £150-200p/h is totally normal (have seen contracts for £900 p/h), but this is obviously based on reputation and skills. I'd start at £40 p/h or offer a flat rate to really force you to increase your efficiency.

Some designers just stick to the creative stuff, but you'll get far bigger contracts and far more success if you try to offer business consultancy - ie understand where the business is going, what they need and build a design around that.

Thanks katie big help!! i shall read up about asp and jsp now.

Right, does anyone want to offer me an apprentice as a web designer if that is possible? ;)


... Ok done some research asp= Active Server Pages, none relevent to me what so ever so i'll give this one a miss. Plus it actually looks tricky
 
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skippi90 - yeah, £150-200p/h is totally normal (have seen contracts for £900 p/h), but this is obviously based on reputation and skills. I'd start at £40 p/h or offer a flat rate to really force you to increase your efficiency.

Not to rise to the bait but, £900/h in the web industry! I have to ask doing what, where and for how long as I've never seen that commercially advertised in the industry.
 
Not to rise to the bait but, £900/h in the web industry! I have to ask doing what, where and for how long as I've never seen that commercially advertised in the industry.

Have to admit I'm curious to. That's nearly as much as top money sucking lawyers at £1000/h
 
Oh and before everyone wants to jub on the web designer bandwagon, remember katie is talking about top level earning as freelancers.

If you're starting off as a junior etc you will be on £15kish and personally I don't think you can ever really earn a GOOD amount working for a company, the real money is running your own studio/freelancing.
 
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