But which one is the memory?
If we're guessing Billy is young Ed Harris then the present is where he confronts her in the Church at the end and the part where she got stabbed is the memory/history?
US: Westworld
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But which one is the memory?
If we're guessing Billy is young Ed Harris then the present is where he confronts her in the Church at the end and the part where she got stabbed is the memory/history?
But which one is the memory?
If we're guessing Billy is young Ed Harris then the present is where he confronts her in the Church at the end and the part where she got stabbed is the memory/history?
I'm so confused. She turns up at the church in a blue dress, the past, and then she turns up int he same attire as she was with William when she got stabbed but now healed, the present (or at leas Williams timeline).
She then walks back out the church, same attire as Williams timeline but now sees the man in black so future timeline (man in black timeline).
Such confusion. Might need to re-watch it.
I noticed the same. Maybe it was under her clothes? Not sure.
However...
While a lot of evidence points to William being the Man In Black, it could be Logan. The MIB once said that he opened up an older Host and they were beautiful inside. In this episode Logan stabbed and opened Delores. The MIB might be Logan.
I think the MIB has to be William simply due to the amount of screen time they have given him compared with Logan. However, maybe that is just misdirection and William is Wyatt or someone else. Who knows.
Why does Delores fear the MIB so much if he is WIlliam though? I know William has gone a bit nuts but he still said he wants to find her and his motivation seems to be that he likes her and thinks she is human. Something major must have happened between them which hopefully will be revealed in the final episode.
Why does Delores fear the MIB so much if he is WIlliam though? I know William has gone a bit nuts but he still said he wants to find her and his motivation seems to be that he likes her and thinks she is human. Something major must have happened between them which hopefully will be revealed in the final episode.
This is the only bit I have a problem with...
Soldato
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Wild conjecture here, interspersed with known facts.
There are three timeframes overlapped during these scenes which make it difficult to know which is which.
The first, is Delores in a blue dress, this is 35 years ago, during the alpha phase of testing, prior to the massacre and death of Arnold
The second, when she was stabbed, she didnt return to the town, as she and william had already been there and found the town had been buried (in this timeframe, she wore her shirt out rather than tucked in I believe)
The third time, in the 'present' day, she has returned after Ford had dug up the town and is on her own, following her memories, and has the shirt tucked in.
As for the identity of MiB, I'm sticking with William, as I'm pretty certain that the outlaw host Hector is modelled after Logan, even down to the scar on his cheek that Delores gave him
There are three timeframes overlapped during these scenes which make it difficult to know which is which.
The first, is Delores in a blue dress, this is 35 years ago, during the alpha phase of testing, prior to the massacre and death of Arnold
The second, when she was stabbed, she didnt return to the town, as she and william had already been there and found the town had been buried (in this timeframe, she wore her shirt out rather than tucked in I believe)
The third time, in the 'present' day, she has returned after Ford had dug up the town and is on her own, following her memories, and has the shirt tucked in.
As for the identity of MiB, I'm sticking with William, as I'm pretty certain that the outlaw host Hector is modelled after Logan, even down to the scar on his cheek that Delores gave him
Indeed. That still doesn't definitely prove who he is though.
I mean, I think Billy is the MIB as well but they just wont completely confirm it.
My view on this is that Delores is stuck in the same loop, just with different people. At the end of her loop, she arrives at the middle of the maze (the Church). We are seeing her in different outfits and different states of being (i.e. with / without a hole in her stomache) because she's on a different loop.
At the end of this episode, she met the MIB there too.
Soldato
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One thing that does occur to me, is the line made to the MiB with regards how the maze "is not for him", I wonder if this means that the maze is a metaphor for the journey that Hosts go on, in order to attain true consciousness, and as a human, MiB would have no use for it.
Absolutely, it is like the group going around with Wyatt are trying to complete the Maze themselves.
The maze is probably a test of the hosts consciousness put in place by Arnold.
The blonde woman said to Teddy something like "you are not ready yet, maybe in another life" before killing him.
I thought it was the same photo, but I didn't bother going back to check.
I wondered that. Maybe she's a host as well.
Love this from wiki -
"It was long believed that Bach had taken the title The Well-Tempered Clavier from a similarly-named set of 24 Preludes and Fugues in all the keys, for which a manuscript dated 1689 was found in the library of the Brussels Conservatoire. It was later shown that this was the work of a composer who was not even born in 1689: Bernhard Christian Weber (1 December 1712 – 5 February 1758). It was in fact written in 1745–50, and in imitation of Bach's example.[15][16]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Well-Tempered_Clavier
"It was long believed that Bach had taken the title The Well-Tempered Clavier from a similarly-named set of 24 Preludes and Fugues in all the keys, for which a manuscript dated 1689 was found in the library of the Brussels Conservatoire. It was later shown that this was the work of a composer who was not even born in 1689: Bernhard Christian Weber (1 December 1712 – 5 February 1758). It was in fact written in 1745–50, and in imitation of Bach's example.[15][16]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Well-Tempered_Clavier
The photo is the same one that causes Abernathy to flip out while he's sat on his porch. However, the photo used in the scene where he initially digs it up shows The Golden Gate Bridge. Whether or not this was done purposefully or accidently, is unknown.
Don't overcomplicate it beyond what it is guys, it's not necessary.
I kept banging on how the visual method to tie up all time lines will have to be complete novum and I'm happy with what they've done - they presented it as "total recall". As "daytime tripping" of the android. We are told repeatedly (by engineers speaking to Maeve) how host memories are different to human's, how human memories are hazy and imperfect, whereas hosts memories are clear as day, precise, difficult to differentiate from "here and now" (Meave slashing throats when recalling old threat etc). Dolores is clearly in the maze - she follows the path of her previous scenarios reliving full drama of the deepest and most traumatic experiences she had as a host. And as we know - suffering is the ultimate cornerstone.
Vonhelmet complains that it's not fully different timelines, just hallucinations or memories - no - the visual tie up method, "the reveal", was presented to the viewer as "perfect memory of the host", but you followed William and Logan in their 30 year old timeline before they met Dolores - you've seen them arriving, changing clothes, going on the train to Sweetwater, their first shag, their first meal, their first kill on so on. Only your point of reference of "when are we" in time when you watch William was provided by Dolores "tripping", that's all. I'm happy with the method and the outcome. It's new and fresh enough and it's clear enough.
Similarly Bernard's "we've had this conversation before" - watch that scene again. This time watch the surroundings - the walls, the shelves, Clem in the background. There are moments in the conversation between Bernard and Ford, when the room changes, furniture disappears, Clem is gone. Either Benny Hill level of continuity errors or again, a hint of different timelines, identical loops, things that happen again and again.
I supported Will = MiB theory from day one, but the closer we get to the end, the more I think of Logan. Not only because of the "I opened one of you once" oneliner, but the more things MiB reveals about himself, the more of a ruthless a-hole picture he paints - the story he tells Teddy about how his wife offed herself with pills because she knew he was an a-hole, how he never felt anything in his entire life until he saw Maeve "ascending" after he killed her daughter. It does sound a lot more like Logan than William. Also, foreshadowing - we are invested in William's story, while Logan is marginal player in the background. We know their story "30 years ago" leads to the "last critical failure and someone dying in the park". Would we care if it was Logan's death or would William's death have bigger impact on us as viewers?
I kept banging on how the visual method to tie up all time lines will have to be complete novum and I'm happy with what they've done - they presented it as "total recall". As "daytime tripping" of the android. We are told repeatedly (by engineers speaking to Maeve) how host memories are different to human's, how human memories are hazy and imperfect, whereas hosts memories are clear as day, precise, difficult to differentiate from "here and now" (Meave slashing throats when recalling old threat etc). Dolores is clearly in the maze - she follows the path of her previous scenarios reliving full drama of the deepest and most traumatic experiences she had as a host. And as we know - suffering is the ultimate cornerstone.
Vonhelmet complains that it's not fully different timelines, just hallucinations or memories - no - the visual tie up method, "the reveal", was presented to the viewer as "perfect memory of the host", but you followed William and Logan in their 30 year old timeline before they met Dolores - you've seen them arriving, changing clothes, going on the train to Sweetwater, their first shag, their first meal, their first kill on so on. Only your point of reference of "when are we" in time when you watch William was provided by Dolores "tripping", that's all. I'm happy with the method and the outcome. It's new and fresh enough and it's clear enough.
Similarly Bernard's "we've had this conversation before" - watch that scene again. This time watch the surroundings - the walls, the shelves, Clem in the background. There are moments in the conversation between Bernard and Ford, when the room changes, furniture disappears, Clem is gone. Either Benny Hill level of continuity errors or again, a hint of different timelines, identical loops, things that happen again and again.
I supported Will = MiB theory from day one, but the closer we get to the end, the more I think of Logan. Not only because of the "I opened one of you once" oneliner, but the more things MiB reveals about himself, the more of a ruthless a-hole picture he paints - the story he tells Teddy about how his wife offed herself with pills because she knew he was an a-hole, how he never felt anything in his entire life until he saw Maeve "ascending" after he killed her daughter. It does sound a lot more like Logan than William. Also, foreshadowing - we are invested in William's story, while Logan is marginal player in the background. We know their story "30 years ago" leads to the "last critical failure and someone dying in the park". Would we care if it was Logan's death or would William's death have bigger impact on us as viewers?
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