I was assuming the DSG didn’t have a separate diff.
What happened to manual transmissions?
- Thread starter mjt
- Start date
I was assuming the DSG didn’t have a separate diff.
Man of Honour
That is true, but when you consider the DSG needs ~5.5 litres and the Manual box + diff hold 3 litres its a fair comparison IMHO
Whilst Autos are perfectly fine to drive day to day and the newer ones superior from a performance point of view i still prefer driving a manual. It probably helps that I don't commute to work & where I live it's mainly all open A&B roads.
Pretty happy with the auto on my Navara - extremely smooth and most of the time completely seamless though in normal drive mode there are some situations I've learnt it doesn't handle so well (apparently Nissan reprogrammed the normal drive mode as a kind of "eco" mode with the new diesel regulations) but pushing the stick over to sport sorts that and as a last resort I can then up and down the range manually but never had to resort to that for normal road driving.
Kind of funny that the situation where I find sport useful is through a village near me that is all up and down hill constantly with multiple traffic calming bottlenecks which are spaced just enough to catch the auto out
- by putting it in sport it holds the lower gear longer just enough to make it seamless again.
I used to have a bit of a suspicion of auto back in the day when mostly they weren't great but these days I wouldn't want to go back to manual for normal every day driving.
Kind of funny that the situation where I find sport useful is through a village near me that is all up and down hill constantly with multiple traffic calming bottlenecks which are spaced just enough to catch the auto out
- by putting it in sport it holds the lower gear longer just enough to make it seamless again.I used to have a bit of a suspicion of auto back in the day when mostly they weren't great but these days I wouldn't want to go back to manual for normal every day driving.
Last edited:
I’m not sure many autos are quicker than the manual equivalent.
Caporegime
Most these days are on par or quicker than the manual option if one even exists.
Quicker to 60, quicker to shift between gears, and usually due to better (and additional) ratios, better acceleration throughout the range.
I’m not sure TBH. Everything PDK I’ve seen has been setup well, but they are not infallible by a long way. I think a lot would come down to the driver.
Man of Honour
You aren't managing consistent 100ms shifts with a manual box
And neither will most autos.
I think you'll find that most autos in their fastest shift mode will shift far quicker than a manual and do this far more consistently. You also have to factor in that you can leave the throttle wide open (on a petrol at least) on the auto boxes which you cannot do on a manual unless you have a flat shift function. If your car is turbocharged this will help keep the boost up.
Associate
Have had DSG for my last 4 cars, will struggle to go back to manual.
I always used to be in the 'autos are boring, less engaging etc etc' but thought I'd try one, power delivery is nicer, if anything maybe more fun (especially with paddle shift)
I do think DSG suits bigger power though, a 150 tdi with DSG can bog down a little when pulling away, but the 190+doesn't seem to suffer
I always used to be in the 'autos are boring, less engaging etc etc' but thought I'd try one, power delivery is nicer, if anything maybe more fun (especially with paddle shift)
I do think DSG suits bigger power though, a 150 tdi with DSG can bog down a little when pulling away, but the 190+doesn't seem to suffer
Man of Honour
Plenty will do it sub 200ms, even the now ancient SMG II in the E46 M3 is quoted as an 80ms upshift
Even with flat shift and being absolutely brutal the best I can manage is about 290ms, the synchros simple can't do it any faster
How fast can it be done with a sequential or dog box?
I don’t think VAG offer a manual on anything more powerful. The 190TDI Tiguan I was looking at was only available with a DSG.
Man of Honour
The air shifted sequential box in a colleagues drag car is around 150-200ms depending on gear and CO2 pressure.
Edit: and that's a ~£10k+ gearbox/transaxle
Last edited:
I'm still on the fence on paddle shift - I think I need to try a decent modern auto with paddle shift - on my automatic the manual shift changes the gear range rather than directly changes gear though on first activation it does usually have the effect of changing up or down - but you wouldn't want to use it to change up or down simulating a manual.
M-DCT still amazes me how good it is. I guess that comes down to the 5 different settings in auto D1-5 with D5 changing at the limiter and dropping it 2 or 3 gears the moment you tickle the gas. You could get away with it just being auto with no paddles I would imagine however...
Manual mode gives you that control on the gears and gear change timing. The shift are brutal and no way can anyone change quicker than a good dual clutch. S6 will break traction between 1st and 2nd.
The JLR 9speed is like butter and effortless. It does need a bit of time sometimes to let it kick down when pulling away but as long as you know that it’s fine. Would never have a manual again I think.
The S2000 feels a bit of a chore now
I hired a Renault captor in Ireland a while ago. The auto on that surprised me for how good it was for a boggo car
Manual mode gives you that control on the gears and gear change timing. The shift are brutal and no way can anyone change quicker than a good dual clutch. S6 will break traction between 1st and 2nd.
The JLR 9speed is like butter and effortless. It does need a bit of time sometimes to let it kick down when pulling away but as long as you know that it’s fine. Would never have a manual again I think.
The S2000 feels a bit of a chore now
I hired a Renault captor in Ireland a while ago. The auto on that surprised me for how good it was for a boggo car
Last edited:
I won't even consider owning anything with auto box, no matter how good they are compared to the crappy old slush boxes. I can see the benefit if you are crawling through traffic everyday, but on a decent b road blast that is my daily commute changing gear is an enjoyable part of driving.
Though a bit unpractical a lot of autos have instant kick down if the accelerator makes contact with the floor - not really the greatest mechanism as you end up looking like a hooligan sometimes just to get it pulling away reasonably briskly. Mine is a bit like that in normal drive but in sport mode much improved. I'm quite impressed how well it nails engine braking in sport mode as well - I can simulate it in "manual" mode with the range changes but not as well as a manual but I found sport mode pretty much gets it dead on.
I didn’t explain very well sorry. I meant when the car is rolling and you want to go, (maybe 50/75% throttle) it sometimes has a bit of engine lag combined with the kick down means it’s nothing then all of a sudden the boost comes in and you fly down the road.