What hifi

[pzblues]

hi all, i have tried several one box systems lately and have'nt been to impressed, i am now looking for some good cheap hifi, i used to have a marantz set up cd63 ki sig pm66 ki sig and mordaunt short ms20i and remember it sounding really good, i could go down that road again or i am thinkink maybe arcam(alpha 7se cd/8r amp) has anyone got any good suggestions please, i listen to mostly rock/metal but enjoy most types of music.

thanks in advance.

 

[Bes]

What's your budget?

 

[pzblues]

What's your budget?

£300/400 i'm looking at some good second hand stuff.

 

[Bes]

Including speakers?

No experience of Arcam stuff but anyway...

I have heard good things about the NAD C320 (£150 new or even cheaper on the Bay)... or if you can manage it, an Audiolab 8000A. The great thing about the AL's is their versatility (I have an 8000S and like it a lot).

For the CDP, I run a Marantz CD63 which I will soon be ripping apart to replace a few bits which apparently make it sound stunning (Sounds great as standard though)... You should be able to get one for around £40. I have also heard good things about Arcam CDPs.

Speakers... Presuming you want bookshelf speakers... Perhaps have a look at Mission, Wharfdale Diamond Series, or possibly even Monitor Audio Bronze. You will get far more for your money going S/H at that price, but then it's difficult to audition stuff and you risk getting something that's been damaged, etc. Buying Amps/ CDP's S/H is pretty safe though.

I'm sure someone who is better qualified to help will be along soon but there's a few ideas anyway!! Also read the sticky

 

[pzblues]

thanks for the advise mate, the cdp, are you refering to marantz cd63 KI Sig or the basic model?

 

[oldbag]

Arcam stuff produces amazing sound, although not so cheap.

Naim are very good too.

 

[Bes]

thanks for the advise mate, the cdp, are you refering to marantz cd63 KI Sig or the basic model?

I have the basic but I think the mods can be done on either.... Obviously starting with the basic is more cost effective.

 

[kidloco]

I have the KI Sig and its defo worth the upgrade if you dotn intend on doing the mods. however if you are prepared to throw a bit of cash at it and are handy with a soldering iron just get the 63.

Amp wise, Im quite partial to the cyrus sound, I picked up a Cyrus 3 amp for a good price which i will be soon upgrading by adding a power amp to it so I can bi-amp my speakers. Cyrus stuff comes up on ebay quite a lot, it does also hold its value pretty well to should you wish to upgrade.

I also recently bought my dad an hi-fi for christmas, I picked up an arcam alpha 7 cd player and amp, and gave him my old speakers, a set of mission 751. The system sounds absolutly great. so impressed with it for the cash and he is chuffed to bits.

 

[Bes]

I have the KI Sig and its defo worth the upgrade if you dotn intend on doing the mods. however if you are prepared to throw a bit of cash at it and are handy with a soldering iron just get the 63.

I was under the impression both benefited from modding as the components (clocks op-amps, removing superfluous circuitry, etc) when upgraded were better than those found on the KI Sig?

 

[kidloco]

I was under the impression both benefited from modding as the components (clocks op-amps, removing superfluous circuitry, etc) when upgraded were better than those found on the KI Sig?

They do mate, the upgrades are supposed to make a great deal of differance to the KI Sig as well as the standard.

I was just trying to say that if pzblues didnt want to go down the upgrade route for whatever reasons, be it cashflow or technical limitations then the KI is a big step up from the standard 63

its a tricky one, im not to shabby with a soldering iron but I dont think i would attempt it, I know its supoosed to truly transform the player but iv heard of more then one person borking one or more players. Im still trying to find out if a local hi-fi should can perform the mod and if so how much it would cost. depending on how that comes out will determin my next step. to risk the mod myself or to buy whole new CD player.




edit -

it seems there is no end on what you can do to these players, seen a DAKU mod advertised, err £550 just for the mod, you send your own player off to them, they mod it and send it back.




DAKU installs the following components, modules & materials;



* Superclock 4 ultra-low jitter master clock.
* Black Gate FK analogue stage power supply capacitors.
* Invisus TBR2 ultra-low noise regulation board with 3 discrete regulation stages for the +5V, +12V & -12V power supplies.
* Black Gate STD digital stage power supply capacitor.
* HexFRED diodes for digital & analogue power supplies
* Black Gate NX Hi-Q replacements for ceramic de-coupling capacitors.
* Black Gate NX Hi-Q replacements for key electrolytic de-coupling capacitors.
* Rubycon ZA replacements for key digital & analogue stages.
* Black Gate N & NX replacements for key analogue de-coupling & coupling.
* Revised analogue filter using top spec, high speed, low distortion op-amps.
* Revised analogue output coupling circuit.
* Mundorf Silver/Gold solder used for PCB solder & wire connections.
* Sontech SFRT-AL & SFRT chassis & component resonance control.
* Schurter IEC Socket OFC Copper/Silver wired to replace 2-core captive mains lead (optional).

 

[-Ad-]

I was under the impression both benefited from modding as the components (clocks op-amps, removing superfluous circuitry, etc) when upgraded were better than those found on the KI Sig?

lol the Ki sig a waste of money. I have the standard cd-63 with about £200 worth of mods inside, and as i always say itl be pushing towards the £1k price range when i finish what else i have planned for it. All the KI has over the otheres is a bracing bar, copper chassis, torroidial tranny and a few upgraded caps. Save your money and get a standard cd-63, audiocom superclock 2, some blackgate and rubycon ZL capacitors, lm4562's op amps, and a variety of audiocom voltage regulators. My player sounds soo sweet now its unbelivable.

its a tricky one, im not to shabby with a soldering iron but I dont think i would attempt it, I know its supoosed to truly transform the player but iv heard of more then one person borking one or more players. Im still trying to find out if a local hi-fi should can perform the mod and if so how much it would cost. depending on how that comes out will determin my next step. to risk the mod myself or to buy whole new CD player.

For somewhere that can perform the mods try. http://www.sercal-electronics.co.uk/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=8

But as posted above audiocom do the same but they use the very best components on each moddable area which isnt really nessessary. My player won't sound too far off their daku one and cost me half the price.

Very reasonably priced comapred to audiocom, and go over to diyforums.com, and go to the 500+ page in the digital section on modding these players. a wealth of knowledge there and they helped me mod my player..... and btw 'rowmeister' on there works for sercal elcetronics, and is a great bloke to deal with. Im at the limit of my knowledge now for my player so will be sending it off to him in the sumemr for completion.

 

[kidloco]

lol *** Ki sig a waste of money. I have the standard cd-63 with about £200 worth of mods inside, and as i always say itl be pushing towards the £1k price range when i finish what else i have planned for it. All the KI has over the otheres is a bracing bar, copper chassis, torroidial tranny and a few upgraded caps. Save your money and get a standard cd-63, audiocom superclock 2, some blackgate and rubycon ZL capacitors, lm4562's op amps, and a variety of audiocom voltage regulators. My player sounds soo sweet now its unbelivable.

Come on mate, id hardly say its a waste of money, and if you listened to the point I was trying to get across is that not everyone can or wants to take a soldering iron to a cd player they have just purchased

no one is disputing for a moment the mods make a huge differance and that if you are buying the player with the inention to mod then of course you should go for the cheaper model

will take a look at those links thiough, cheers

 

[-Ad-]

Come on mate, id hardly say its a waste of money, and if you listened to the point I was trying to get across is that not everyone can or wants to take a soldering iron to a cd player they have just purchased

no one is disputing for a moment the mods make a huge differance and that if you are buying the player with the inention to mod then of course you should go for the cheaper model

will take a look at those links thiough, cheers

o i know, i was just saying that if your modding a player it's better to start with a standard cd-63 and mod the hell out of it, and put the £100 saved over the Ki sig towards £100 worth of mods, which would far surpass the standard KI sig. Plus im a student so the KI was far too expensive for me

I have killed 2 player through carelessness, but i would still thoroughly recommend getting a standard cd-63 or SE at the most modded by audioncom, or sercal, or maybe even yourself if you fancy it.

 

[kidloco]

just out of interest mate how much would the parts be do do the mod that Sercal charge £255 for
The upgrade involves the following.....



* Upgraded low ESR PSU capacitors
* Schottky Diodes for Analogue and Digital circuits
* PSU capacitors bypassed with plastic film capacitors
* S Power +5V, +12V & -12V Low noise Regulators
* Black Gate (STD) Analogue stage power supply caps
* Analogue output stage using quality, high speed, low distortion op-amps. ****
* Black Gate (STD) capacitors used for key Analogue stage (DAC)
* Black Gate (STD) capacitors used for key Digital stage (DAC)
* Isolated CPU regulation
* Chassis resonance control
* Spike protection on mains input to Transformer

 

[-Ad-]

Well it looks like a bloody good deal to me if that includes the mods being done by brent.

just out of interest mate how much would the parts be do do the mod that Sercal charge £255 for
The upgrade involves the following.....



* Upgraded low ESR PSU capacitors-----> ~£5
* Schottky Diodes for Analogue and Digital circuits-----> ~£8
* PSU capacitors bypassed with plastic film capacitors-----> ~£1
* S Power +5V, +12V & -12V Low noise Regulators-----> ~£135
* Black Gate (STD) Analogue stage power supply caps-----> ~£10
* Analogue output stage using quality, high speed, low distortion op-amps. ****-----> Well could be £20, but mine cost me nothing. look at getting free samples of national LM4562 op-amps. They drop straight in and sound better than the old combo i used which costing me about £20.

* Black Gate (STD) capacitors used for key Analogue stage (DAC)-----> ~£3-10
* Black Gate (STD) capacitors used for key Digital stage (DAC)-----> ~£3-10
* Isolated CPU regulation -----> Dunno
* Chassis resonance control-----> ~£5
* Spike protection on mains input to Transformer-----> could be that £30 plug on their site or an internal circuit costing ~£5 (i have internal one)

so overall about £180 from my list but is probably more like ~£200 as ive been conservative, plus the amount of time taken to do those mods will be about a day, so think of the amount of labour involved too. Plus he removes the useless HDAM circuit (hold back the new op-amps), and removes + bypasses other crappy circuits near the outputs. £50 labour is great price tbh

Those voltage regulators make up most the cost, and i used £16 audiocom regulators off ebay which are also excellent, but not as good as the s-power ones. BUT the most IMPORTANT mod is a new clock, like the audiocom superclock 2, 3, or 4. Plus using a separate power supply with the clock makes a world of difference too.

Most important mods:

1.) Remove buffer capacitors, muting transitors = FREE
2.) New clock. i.e audiocom superclock 2 (recommend a separate psu too) = ~£70 off ebay.
3.) replace op-amps with free samples of national LM4562 'drop in replacments' = FREE again.
4.) Replace all important capacitors in PSU, digital, analogue sections = £20-£50 depending on which caps you get. e.g. rubycon zl's for £20, black
gates for £50.
5.) x2 new 12V regulators, and anywhere up to 8 new 5V regs (3 is the normal) = £45 for sercals regulators, or audiocom super regulator off ebay @ ~£17.
6.) Hard oak feet, or spikes = ~£10-£20
7.) chassis lid, and chassis bitumen damping sheets =~£20 in total

There are many other mods that can be done, although don't give as much SQ increase as the other mods, but when many of them are done for little £££, you are looking at a truly stunning player


excuse my typing ive been revising all day

 

[kidloco]

wow i completly failed to notice the £255 didnt even include a superclock upgrade

well thanks for all the info, defo something to consider, although im still to chicken to attempt them myself

Think I will get the power amp first then see how many pennies I have to throw at my cd player. just feel my speakers deserve a little more, all in good time i suppose



Oh, sorry to hijack the thread

 

[Raymond Lin]

No soldering iron is going anywhere near my CD6000Ki lol

Those mods sounds interesting but how does it compare to other CD players if you have invested the same money on a totally new player (+ the cost of the original CD63) instead

 

[-Ad-]

No soldering iron is going anywhere near my CD6000Ki lol

Those mods sounds interesting but how does it compare to other CD players if you have invested the same money on a totally new player (+ the cost of the original CD63) instead

total cost is £250 with x2 dead player too. The modded player i have now cost me £12 (delivery only) as it was dead. Fault was a 20p dead voltage regulator

Only guessing that it should rival most new players upwards of the £800 mark, and ive heard from some of the other further modded players being pitted against £1k machines. That's only a guess, but something like the rega apollo would be eaten up by a well modded cd-63. Just the quality of these new parts extremely high, plus the original DAC in these players is pretty good too. Also using the best capacitors throughout helps, removing unecessary circuits, etc, and not forgetting the x5 new audicom dedicated regs, stunning jsut released LM4562 op-amps, and a superclock 2 with its own PSU.

I really need to post a thread about all the mods, to get people interested.

It really sounds ******* amazing along with my maxed millett hybrid and grado HF-1's. I have reached perfection and the only mod now will be the HF-1's being sent to larry at headphile for woddying with deep zebrawood cups and a nice cable upgrade.

This system cost me £500, and i can bet that finding anything remotely as good for £500 is impossible. Im also talking about subing out my grado's for my modded MA B2's and vice versa for comparison. The speakers would sound even better if they wernt on my desk and i had them on some sand filled stands

sorry for the hijack

I think an arcam 7se / 8 cdp would be a downgrade from the marantz KI you had. Whats your price range and do you need an amp too ?

 

[Bes]

total cost is £250 with x2 dead player too. The modded player i have now cost me £12 (delivery only) as it was dead. Fault was a 20p dead voltage regulator

Only guessing that it should rival most new players upwards of the £800 mark, and ive heard from some of the other further modded players being pitted against £1k machines. That's only a guess, but something like the rega apollo would be eaten up by a well modded cd-63. Just the quality of these new parts extremely high, plus the original DAC in these players is pretty good too. Also using the best capacitors throughout helps, removing unecessary circuits, etc, and not forgetting the x5 new audicom dedicated regs, stunning jsut released LM4562 op-amps, and a superclock 2 with its own PSU.

I really need to post a thread about all the mods, to get people interested.

It really sounds ******* amazing along with my maxed millett hybrid and grado HF-1's. I have reached perfection and the only mod now will be the HF-1's being sent to larry at headphile for woddying with deep zebrawood cups and a nice cable upgrade.

This system cost me £500, and i can bet that finding anything remotely as good for £500 is impossible. Im also talking about subing out my grado's for my modded MA B2's and vice versa for comparison. The speakers would sound even better if they wernt on my desk and i had them on some sand filled stands

sorry for the hijack

I think an arcam 7se / 8 cdp would be a downgrade from the marantz KI you had. Whats your price range and do you need an amp too ?

No, please let's start a thread about the CD63- sounds like there are a few forumites who want to modify these things.... Should make my JMLabs 816's really sing when done

 

[-Ad-]

No, please let's start a thread about the CD63- sounds like there are a few forumites who want to modify these things.... Should make my JMLabs 816's really sing when done

il do that after my exams at the end of the month, plus when im recovering my my (hopefully) final op to fix my shoulder il have plenty of time to be imobile and heal, so can write a thread starting with the basics about modding, the gains, and how to mod your cd-63, 67 etc