What should I do?

geekyEd

geekyEd

geekyEd

Soldato
Joined
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Reading
Hi all,

As some of you are aware, I have recently started out offering PC repairs in my local area.

Now as part of this I wanted some business cards made, so I contacted a company, they said to send them through a design and the price that it would cost (at this stage no mention of if this was VAT inclusive or exclusive was made, so I assumed it was a fully inclusive price).

So after sending them the front of the design they request a design for the back of which I sent.

Then I hear nothing for 5 days (3 working) no conformation email or bill to be seen.

Then I receive a Paypal invoice for the work that I was not even aware they were going to complete being as though id received no correspondence prior to the Paypal bill. This bill was also 15% more than I was quoted, obviously VAT, I felt deceived and annoyed as this wouldn't have made them the cheapest option if this was clear from the start.

So I decline the invoice assuming an error had occurred (I hadn't spotted the value of the extra money being 15% yet).

I was then informed that it was VAT, they then got quite funny telling me that I couldn't avoid paying VAT on something. I obviously had assumed that this was considered in the original price.

So I sent an email to cancel the order.

I then receive an email back after a few days, this time telling me that the goods have already been printed and that I cannot cancel the order and must pay them immediately.

A few emails later an they have said they will charge me the orignal price, but I have already ordered from elsewhere because of their overcharge and the fact that I wasn't even aware they had accepted the job and were going to print it.

As far as I'm aware I never confirmed any order in the first place and under the DSR a contract is only entered into upon payment.

I basically feel robbed here as I don't think I have even entered into any kind of agreement with them.

Ive just told them I'm not paying for something I haven't ordered and they are threatening legal action over £25. As well as to increase the bill for every day the balance goes unpaid.

What would you do?
 
Business quotes are always ex-VAT, because many small businesses are VAT-exempt and can claim it back.


M
 
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If you have no order confirmation and more importantly they have no proof that you said "go ahead" then that's hopeful...however if it's all been done all over the phone it could be your word against theirs.

The fact that they waited a few days before getting back in touch and then saying the order had already been printed is suss.

Best bet? Get yourself a fully paid up member of the Federation of Small Business, it'll cost you about £100 a year if you don't have any staff and you get free legal advice. It's an absolute godsend!

For more in depth legal advice it might be worth posting the same quest on the UK business forums, there is a legal section on there and has some knowledgeable bods.

Good luck and keep us updated! :)
 
Meridian said:
Business quotes are always ex-VAT, because many small businesses are VAT-exempt and can claim it back.

M
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Quoting the entire OP fail.

If you didn't pay upfront and you didn't agree to any terms of conditions or order then I doubt they have a leg to stand on.

Whether the price was incl. or excl. VAT is irrelevant.
 
The question here isn't really about VAT, it's about whether the OP actually ordered the goods. Depends on the wording of the correspondence I guess, but the OP is suggesting that the vendor went ahead with the work before the order had been placed. If that's the case then they don't need paying.

You don't discuss buying something from someone... then unexpectedly have it and its invoice arrive a few days later!
 
I would assume that your sending of the designs would look like acceptance of their work.

Plus the fact that you sent them the back too, then again you actually didn't agree to them doing it, and in normal circumstances, there is some sort of communicated acceptance of work over an assumption.
 
BTW I don't think the DSR protects you for customised or made to order goods.


As a business transaction however you should have recieved an invoice - prior to final agreement - which included the final price including VAT and any other extra charges.
 
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I've just reread the OP.

He asked them for a quote (we assume)
They gave him a price
They asked for the front of the design - he sent it
They asked for the back of the design - he sent it

What does he expect they will do with those when they have received them? From the companies point of view it is reasonable to assume if your client sends you two lots of artwork they are keen on having the work completed.

Somewhere on their quote or their website it should say that the quote is exclusive of VAT, they should also have a VAT number listed on the correspondence and website if they are VAT registered.

Check these things.

OP what were your actual conversations with the printers? You didn't say "I'm sending you these designs but don't print them yet" I assume.
 
I guess it comes down to - can they prove they have a contract with the OP - if so he doesn't really have a leg to stand on.
 
Ive sent an email to say ill pay anyway, will make my life easier even though I know I was in the right.

Conversation was done over email, and there was no invoice at all just "there's the price send us your designs and we will start to process", by which I thought they ment put me on the system and we will invoice you then create the goods.

Anyways like I said ill just have more cards than required for now.
 
Just for the future, Quotes in most cases are always done Ex Vat. As other people have said anyway.
A proper way of doing business would have been to get everything confirmed before printing, rather than just going ahead.

Assumptions should never be made during the printing stages, I'm a printer myself so i've learnt the hardway :)
 
Ah well, look on the bright side, it wasn't a particually expensive mistake to make, it could have been much worse lol.

As you say, you will be getting two lots of cards so it's not like you've been diddled.

Put it down to experience, but I would still recommend you join the FSB, I find them invaluable!
 
Scubascorpion said:
I want to know what two bit company uses paypal. :D
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Boots, DHL, Viking, William Hill, Ted Baker, New Look, Toshiba, Paddy Power, hundreds of thousands of reputable companies.

I know this is resolved now but thought I would share my opinion.

If figures are quoted without saying if they are excluding or including VAT then you should ask them to clarify. I think you were both in the wrong over this, them more so though. I always state ex VAT on pricing B2B.

With regards to the order acceptance it sounds like a misunderstanding, they thought you wanted to go ahead in sending the artwork. Was it a complete artwork, business card ready to go? If not then it is an issue that they did not send you a final proof for approval.

Whilst there was an ongoing dispute I don't think you should have ordered elsewhere. As has happened, they did the right thing and offered you the business cards at the price including VAT. If I was in this situation I would have most definitely paid especially since its only £25.

Use it to your advantage and hand out more cards and gain more business.
 
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