What speed would you expect?

lokkers · 9 Jul 2006 at 19:59

With these line stats?

Reason I ask is that I've not got a great line (1mb only on standard ADSL), but on my initial connection to MaxADSL I was please to get a 3mbit sync (and 2mbit download/speedtest). However, since then (2 1/2 weeks ago) the conection has slowly got worse, until today I'm syncing at 1.4mbit (60kb/s on ADSLGuide speedtest

)

I am planning to drop Eclipse a webnote tomorrow to ask what I can do to improve the speed (as its worse than standard adsl). My router is also on its last legs (it hangs about once a day, requiring me to switch it off) so I was wondering if the constant reboots have affected my sync for the worse? The router is already using the downstairs socket and so I don't think there's much I can do my end to make it better (aside from a new router).

And advice appreciated, thanks.

tolien · 9 Jul 2006 at 20:08

Those stats are mostly worthless without the sync rate you're at.

If you're synching at 1.4Mbps, you should be at a 1Mbps BRAS profile, and get ~120kB/s. Getting 60KB/s implies you dropped down far enough to get a 512kbps profile...

jbloggs · 9 Jul 2006 at 20:17

lokkers:

How far are you from your local exchange?

I am 5.8km from mine and I am now on ADSL MAX 8, my line synchs at just over 3.0Mbps usually, and I have a download speed of 1900Kbps usually, although sometimes it is less than this, probably due to contention, upload speed 370Kbps.

The speed during the first 10 days will change, as the line is trained, during which time your router/modem should be left on. If you want to get your line retrained again, you can simply request your ISP to do this, so a new profile can be created for your line.

Some info on line training:

The line is monitored at the exchange for the first ten days from activation to ascertain the best possible signal. In this time (and especially in the first three days) you may experience some fluctuations in bandwidth before you attain the ultimate speed available.

EDIT:

Your MTU and RWIN values can also affect your download/upload speeds.

See Here on how to find your optimum values.

lokkers · 9 Jul 2006 at 20:26

tolien - I'm syncing at 1472Kbps/448Kbps. I had guessed that I'm now stuck on a 512kbps BRAS rate

jbloggs - Quite a distance unfortuantely (I'd guess about the same as you - 1mbit max for standard ADSL).

Do you therefore think that having to reboot the router often (like once a day) during the training period (which I should be out of) will have knackered my profile? If so, is it a case of contacting Eclipse and asking them to retrain (will buy a new router tonight if so!).

thanks fellas

tolien · 9 Jul 2006 at 20:31

jbloggs said:
The speed during the first 10 days will change, as the line is trained, during which time your router/modem should be left on.

Not really. Statistics will be collected over the first 10 days, but that's pretty much as far as it goes.
If there's a stability issue, the DLM might kick in and alter either the target SNR margin or interleaving setting, but that could happen any time - the first 10 days isn't special in that respect.

If you want to get your line retrained again, you can simply request your ISP to do this, so a new profile can be created for your line.

The line is monitored at the exchange for the first ten days from activation to ascertain the best possible signal.

Not true. The rate adaption and DLM processes (and the varying BRAS limit that accompanies) are continuous.

In this time (and especially in the first three days) you may experience some fluctuations in bandwidth before you attain the ultimate speed available.

Quite, but because of the process behind the BRAS limit, not for the reason that your line is "trained" or anything of the sort.

Do you therefore think that having to reboot the router often (like once a day) during the training period (which I should be out of) will have knackered my profile?

It might have, given your (high) SNR margin. Tried resynching and seeing what you then get?
Even if you leave it be, you should see an increase to 1Mbps, but you should easily see 2Mbps if not more.

lokkers · 9 Jul 2006 at 20:41

tolien said:
It might have, given your (high) SNR margin. Tried resynching and seeing what you then get?
Even if you leave it be, you should see an increase to 1Mbps, but you should easily see 2Mbps if not more.

Yeah resyncing (rebooting router) has no affect to the sync rate - It almost seems stuck

To be honest I'd be chuffed with 2mbit (a 100% increase on standard ADSL for me), and I'm not expecting more.

Gonna buy a DG834 tonight I think...

tolien · 9 Jul 2006 at 20:45

Sounds like all the rebooting made the DLM up your target SNR. Poke your ISP to get it reset.

lokkers · 9 Jul 2006 at 21:04

ok, thanks for the advice. New router ordered, and I'll get onto Eclipse and ask them to retrain the line.

tolien · 9 Jul 2006 at 21:25

Specifically, you want to get them to check your target SNR margin is set to the default and if it isn't, to reset it to 6dB.

Asking them to "retrain the line" probably won't get you far.

lokkers · 9 Jul 2006 at 21:39

Gotcha, thanks Tolien

CurlyWhirly · 10 Jul 2006 at 20:48

lokkers said:
With these line stats?

No bull.

I have exactly the same attenuation figures both upstream and downstream :eek:

I get 3.5 Mb and the BT estimator said I can get 3 Mb so I'm pleased

Edit: I just realised you were on Max!

lokkers · 10 Jul 2006 at 22:20

indeed

New router has been purchased, and I'm gonna drop Eclipse a line tomorrow and ask them to check the SNR margin (and reset if it isnt 6dB).

Fingers crossed I'll get a better connection this time round with a router that doesnt freeze every few days... To be honest I'll be happy with anything over 1mbit.

lokkers · 27 Jul 2006 at 11:19

an update on my problems.

Eclipse sent me the standard "try this and that" email (microfilters, use the master socket etc), which I did to humour them.

Next to no improvement (now syncing at 1632kbs) and still an SNR of 12-15.

Sent them another support ticket asking if they could reset the default SNR to 6 if it isnt already, and this is the reply:

The reason we have advised these check is unfortunately we are unable
to reset the profiling and running these check should improve the sync
rate.

However if these have not improved the signal then it is more then
likely this is the maximum speed you can receive looking at the connection
stats it appears that your sync rate has improved to 1632 after a
period of time if the rate continues to stay this should in turn increase
your currently line rate which is currently set to 1152

Wonderful, I find myself getting the same connection with Max as I did with standard ADSL. What a let down

CurlyWhirly · 29 Jul 2006 at 00:19

lokkers said:
an update on my problems.

Next to no improvement (now syncing at 1632kbs) and still an SNR of 12-15.

Wonderful, I find myself getting the same connection with Max as I did with standard ADSL. What a let down

I have exactly the same attenuation figures as you and I am syncing at just over 4 Mb (which gives me a 3.5 Mb BRAS profile) with interleaving on and a target SN/R margin of 9 dB and I have a (mostly) stable line.

If only your ISP could get BTw to decrease your target margin to 9 dB then you would almost certainly be able to get 1.5 Mb or even 2 Mb.

tolien · 29 Jul 2006 at 00:23

The reason we have advised these check is unfortunately we are unable
to reset the profiling

Given other ISPs are quite capable of resetting the target SNR margin (and will set it to a specified value, provided you don't get nuts with the requests or ask for silly values), it might be time for the age old "if you won't do something, may I have my MAC please" - and let the retentions folks do something about it (if they care).

OllyM · 29 Jul 2006 at 00:24

Eclipse are regurgitating rubbish - it takes a fair bit of pushing, but decent ISP's will get BT to reset the target SNR eventually.

Mind you, after hearing AAISP staff mention having the phone put down on them (by BT Wholesale), and being forced to jump through hoops... I do wonder if they just can't be bothered.

CurlyWhirly · 29 Jul 2006 at 00:36

tolien said:
Given other ISPs are quite capable of resetting the target SNR margin

Very true, I found that a 6 dB SN/R margin wasn't high enough to keep my connection stable in the evenings so I put in a request to Zen and a few days later my SN/R was increased to 9 dB which gives me a much more stable line.

My request to have interleaving was also carried out within a few days so these kind of requests are possible as Tolien mentions.

lokkers · 29 Jul 2006 at 00:41

Thanks guys. Yeah I expected someone to query the "we can't set the SNR" quote (as Tolien is never wrong

) so I'll drop them another ticket asking once more for the SNR to be dropped, or "else". If it works its way back up then fine, I'll accept that my line isn't suitable. But from what I have understood of the thread so far it sounded like a bare-faced lie straight off. I am also a bit miffed that my connection profile still hasn't updated to show my max stable connection. I expected better of Eclipse really, and makes me wish I had gone with Nildram like I originally intended...

Its not like I am expecting miracles either, just a 1mbit speed increase will do me fine!

tolien · 29 Jul 2006 at 00:52

lokkers said:
as Tolien is never wrong

s/never/frequently

I am also a bit miffed that my connection profile still hasn't updated to show my max stable connection.

That isn't necessarily Eclipse's fault though (but once again, they could be more proactive in dealing with it).

Richdog · 30 Jul 2006 at 09:44

lokkers said:
indeed

New router has been purchased, and I'm gonna drop Eclipse a line tomorrow and ask them to check the SNR margin (and reset if it isnt 6dB).

Fingers crossed I'll get a better connection this time round with a router that doesnt freeze every few days... To be honest I'll be happy with anything over 1mbit.

What'll make you sick is that my new ISP IDNet actually offered to reset it for me after my "training period" when I complained of poor speeds. Customer service is absolutely impeccaple at IDNet.