Caporegime
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People like to scapegoat.
When the job loses and economic impact is felt, people will find someone else to scapegoat.
What were the advantages in being in the EU?
- Thread starter davewhite04
- Start date
People like to scapegoat.
When the job loses and economic impact is felt, people will find someone else to scapegoat.
Do you think it's realistic for every single bank in London to relocate and for the UK to lose 100% of those jobs and tax revenues? I mean this is what you're saying without a hint of irony. It's always the ABSOLUTE worst case scenario from Remain, it's just fear mongering
Caporegime
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Any loss would be bad.
Even if just one or two went.
Even if just one or two went.
No? Think a bit broader. Even if some go, the industries that support the financial sector are going to be affected negatively and may look to move too. And then you've got the completely unrelated industries that are talking about going too for the same reasons. Clearly, no one single industry is going to move all it's operations away but the knock on effect is significant.
I have held 2 quite senior posts since the WTD came in.. it was a condition of the job offer that I signed away my WTD rights.
Since I became Engineering Manager, I have hired quite a few technical staff that are from the EU, so we now have over 20% EU migrants.
I am a big supporter of free labour movement, clearly I could easily have chosen to be xenophobic, but I always want to employ the best and whilst there was some angst about hiring EU migrants on the basis they are potentially a flight risk, in the same way some employers see people with familes/children as being more likely to stick around, I have changed the direction of our engineering division to ensure we can fully support a more mobile workforce.
Anyway, the point is that I spend a lot of time with said EU migrants, and my opinion prior to this was pretty much that we are a slightly xenophobic insular society, but I've well and truly had my mind changed by them, and in fact it was one of the factors for me voting leave.
Of course there is slight bias in this since they have chosen the UK to migrate to so clearly had already decided this was the best place for them.
There are many surprising things that show how different we are to quite a few European countries.. just taking 2 recent conversations
- We have a much more agile set of legislation for employment that supports agile companies. It surpised me to learn that in some countries (e.g. Italy / Greece) the employment laws are such that redundancies etc are next to impossible, so there is a culture of studying like crazy to try to land as good a job as you can as quickly as you can, then essentially kick back and take your foot off the gas.. These employment laws stifle things somewhat in that you can't easily change the direction of your company and react to the world changing, as you pretty much have to keep your existing staff, even if their skillsets aren't appropriate anymore.
- More importantly, our welfare system is so liberal compared to a lot of european countries, they think we are crazy being so liberal and all admit that from an outsiders point of view, they can see why immigration might need a little control.
There are many other interesting views I've had the pleasure of discussing, it's so nice to see what we do badly and what we do well in this country, but the overriding concensus for our guys is that European countries are very very dissimilar in a lot of key cultural and legislative ways and it would be horrifically painful all round to try to assimilate everyone into a super state, which is the direction the EU are heading, despite the look of horror on peoples faces when you talk about it.. People in Greece/Italy/Romanian/Bulgaria/France/Germany/Austria that I know all don't want to be controlled centrally either..
In addition, you can see those disparities in how the countries are shaped by looking at things like the EU trade tarriffs.. the largest exports of France and Germany seem to have the highest tarriffs to protect their industries, and they are all geared for a more insular protected EU market, where as, our main exports seem to have the lower tarriffs that encourages freer trade with the RoW, something we always push for as a nation..
I can see the only way forward for the UK is either fully out, or fully in.. this halfway house seems great, but the EU is changing and our economic/trade models are not the direction it wants to be in, which makes its long term future at odds..
I am all for being more 'global'.. although the EU are not the cause of other issues I encounter, such as this morning having a conversation with someone in my network that is looking for a job, a really talented guy who I'd love to employ, and would love to come to the UK, but for the size of company we are, it's not something I can entertain at the moment because of the sponsorship requirements for a VISA.. That is definitely something I believe is not an EU issue, but more our immigration policies on non-EU migrants.
I am a big supporter of free labour movement, clearly I could easily have chosen to be xenophobic, but I always want to employ the best and whilst there was some angst about hiring EU migrants on the basis they are potentially a flight risk, in the same way some employers see people with familes/children as being more likely to stick around, I have changed the direction of our engineering division to ensure we can fully support a more mobile workforce.
Anyway, the point is that I spend a lot of time with said EU migrants, and my opinion prior to this was pretty much that we are a slightly xenophobic insular society, but I've well and truly had my mind changed by them, and in fact it was one of the factors for me voting leave.
Of course there is slight bias in this since they have chosen the UK to migrate to so clearly had already decided this was the best place for them.
There are many surprising things that show how different we are to quite a few European countries.. just taking 2 recent conversations
- We have a much more agile set of legislation for employment that supports agile companies. It surpised me to learn that in some countries (e.g. Italy / Greece) the employment laws are such that redundancies etc are next to impossible, so there is a culture of studying like crazy to try to land as good a job as you can as quickly as you can, then essentially kick back and take your foot off the gas.. These employment laws stifle things somewhat in that you can't easily change the direction of your company and react to the world changing, as you pretty much have to keep your existing staff, even if their skillsets aren't appropriate anymore.
- More importantly, our welfare system is so liberal compared to a lot of european countries, they think we are crazy being so liberal and all admit that from an outsiders point of view, they can see why immigration might need a little control.
There are many other interesting views I've had the pleasure of discussing, it's so nice to see what we do badly and what we do well in this country, but the overriding concensus for our guys is that European countries are very very dissimilar in a lot of key cultural and legislative ways and it would be horrifically painful all round to try to assimilate everyone into a super state, which is the direction the EU are heading, despite the look of horror on peoples faces when you talk about it.. People in Greece/Italy/Romanian/Bulgaria/France/Germany/Austria that I know all don't want to be controlled centrally either..
In addition, you can see those disparities in how the countries are shaped by looking at things like the EU trade tarriffs.. the largest exports of France and Germany seem to have the highest tarriffs to protect their industries, and they are all geared for a more insular protected EU market, where as, our main exports seem to have the lower tarriffs that encourages freer trade with the RoW, something we always push for as a nation..
I can see the only way forward for the UK is either fully out, or fully in.. this halfway house seems great, but the EU is changing and our economic/trade models are not the direction it wants to be in, which makes its long term future at odds..
I am all for being more 'global'.. although the EU are not the cause of other issues I encounter, such as this morning having a conversation with someone in my network that is looking for a job, a really talented guy who I'd love to employ, and would love to come to the UK, but for the size of company we are, it's not something I can entertain at the moment because of the sponsorship requirements for a VISA.. That is definitely something I believe is not an EU issue, but more our immigration policies on non-EU migrants.
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The EU says no.
https://twitter.com/b_judah/status/748097437047332864
Money can go anywhere at the drop of a hat. Its all digital, all they require is office space, computers, servers, it doesnt even require the same people, they can just employ new one's or take with, it doesnt matter. The banks will go where they can make the most money, it will be more easy for them to relocate than any other industry. They will go, and the UK will be left as a poor, weak, insignificant little country.
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That just about sum's it up. Me Me Me Me Me Me Me me me me me me.
You think we shouldn't have strong consumer rights?
With regard to your point saw this quote today, seems rather apt: "It's not a threat, it's just business".
Do people who write 'the EU' realise that UK was part of the EU and decisions made.
It was not at all 'us vs them'. Some of the EU things made a lot of sense but it's a shame those who know everything about the EU seemed to handpick a few silly things
It was not at all 'us vs them'. Some of the EU things made a lot of sense but it's a shame those who know everything about the EU seemed to handpick a few silly things
Soldato
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The leave or remain side could say what ever they like, its the new government that will set the terms.
Soldato
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The EU has always been viewed as them, I know no one that's refers to the EU as us.
Soldato
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My life will carry on as before, just like most Brits.
Associate
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Speaking from the Biotech sector, it's still too early to tell, however:
Freedom of movement helps bring in talent from the continent.
Lots of EU collaborations are extremely beneficial to UK science, if these lose funding lots of progress and jobs could be lost. I sincerely doubt the Govt. would put up the same level of funding.
Losing access to free trade could make importing reagents more expensive, not to mention the logistics of getting stuff into the EU could become more problematic. Simple answer to this is set up distribution in Ire or on the continent.
Freedom of movement helps bring in talent from the continent.
Lots of EU collaborations are extremely beneficial to UK science, if these lose funding lots of progress and jobs could be lost. I sincerely doubt the Govt. would put up the same level of funding.
Losing access to free trade could make importing reagents more expensive, not to mention the logistics of getting stuff into the EU could become more problematic. Simple answer to this is set up distribution in Ire or on the continent.
Probably not 100%, but it's not a joke either.
Lex's column in the FT on Monday had an amusing little allegory on this. Here's the headline and an excerpt to give you some idea:
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I think you're going a bit too much into project fear nonsense there
the EEA- thing is quite realistic... we get migration controls in return for a hybrid deal and unfortunately the passporting of financial services is one area they'd like to target... that does not however mean game over for the city, it is just one aspect of it... it would certainly be a bit of a blow and lead to job losses but if you think it turns us into an insignificant little country then you're way off the mark. Paris, Dublin, Frankfurt aren't necessarily going to be popular places to work for traders... lower pay and bonus caps for a start won't attract talent to EU cities. London still trades with the rest of the world and you're only talking about a part of the sell side banks that needs to deal within the EU.
It is a selling point for the SNP though - if Scotland got independence then you could just as easily see Edinburgh strengthening its financial sector, English speaking for a start.
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Nice post, lots of good points.
Just wanted to highlight this one. Before the vote I was chatting with my father and he parroted something about being "ruled by Brussels". I asked if he really believed France, Germany, Italy, etc., each of them countries with proud histories and distinct cultures, would submit themselves to being "ruled" by the EU. Of course they wouldn't!
I think one of the reasons so many voted to leave is a kind of paranoia of a French-German conspiracy to make everyone in the EU the same. It's rubbish.
And this was the problem...