What would have happened if the terror plot was not foiled?

[weescott]

I would imagine there would be questions as to why airport security is still so lax (not that I agree with the extremity of the current hand luggage ban).

Jokester

It's not lax though. The fact is that the end result could have been created by houshold chemicals / objects (albeit with expert knowledge). The only way to deal with that is not to take risks and put in place the extreme measures.

 

[bigredshark]

As I pointed out in my other thread, you could ban hand luggage entirely and still get enough explosive onboard to take a plane down.

Short of full cavity and subdermal searches for each and every passenger, it is impossible to prevent explosives or weapons being taken onboard.

Would you still fly if you had to have your holiest of holes probed each time you went through customs?

Would you still fly if you had to go under the surgeons knife each time you went through customs?

*n

I believe, though I'm not an expert, that the new full body xrays being tested (i got asked to go through the trial last time i flew from terminal 4 at heathrow) would detect weapons hidden in body cavities and probably also explosives. Some US airports use them I'm told but they're both expensive (10 times the cost of the walk through metal detectors I'm told) and controversial in terms of privacy (they are, I'm told, 'revealing')

 

[bigredshark]

It's not lax though. The fact is that the end result could have been created by houshold chemicals / objects (albeit with expert knowledge). The only way to deal with that is not to take risks and put in place the extreme measures.

It's certainly better than it was, years back I accidentally went through customs with a swiss army knife in my pocket. Not such a big deal pre 9/11 but still pretty lax, I'd never be able to do that these days, likewise although mobiles always had to be taken out of pocket, they used to get put in trays and simply passed through without being scanned at several airports I used, they now go through the x ray machines.

It's not perfect yet though

 

[VIRII]

I believe, though I'm not an expert, that the new full body xrays being tested (i got asked to go through the trial last time i flew from terminal 4 at heathrow) would detect weapons hidden in body cavities and probably also explosives. Some US airports use them I'm told but they're both expensive (10 times the cost of the walk through metal detectors I'm told) and controversial in terms of privacy (they are, I'm told, 'revealing')

Was the thing that you walked through a portal a kind of archway?

 

[Over Clocker]

Just to show the difference, I once had a transfer at some airport in the middle east, and the security guy wasn't even looking at the screen as people passed their hand luggage through it, the guy at the xray didnt stop anyone when it beeped as people went through, and when the queue got too long, he just waived people to go around it

I guess islamic terrorists aren't going to blow stuff up in the Middle East though.

 

[Jokester]

As I pointed out in my other thread, you could ban hand luggage entirely and still get enough explosive onboard to take a plane down.

Short of full cavity and subdermal searches for each and every passenger, it is impossible to prevent explosives or weapons being taken onboard.

Would you still fly if you had to have your holiest of holes probed each time you went through customs?

Would you still fly if you had to go under the surgeons knife each time you went through customs?

*n

And that is why I posted this in that thread. But questions would be asked. The "pre this week" hand luggage policies were absurd.

Jokester

 

[Von Smallhausen]

I've just been thinking, what would have happened if the terror plat to blow up planes over the Atlantic went ahead?

Imagine if we all woke up yesterday with the news that 8 planes had been blown up?

What would the state of the country currently be? What would the public's reaction be in your opinion?

Mal

I would have been appalled to read about such devastation. Appalled, shocked and I would imagine the vast majority of people would have been also.

The police and security services would have been slammed for not acting, just as they are slammed for acting. Difficult to win but it is sadly the nature of the beast.

I would rather they were damned if they do. With the tinderbox that is relations between police, Muslims and non-Muslims, the last thing that this situation is or needs to be viewed as is persecution against Mualims which is nit the case.

 

[bigredshark]

Was the thing that you walked through a portal a kind of archway?

No, it's a circular enclosure you walk into and stop for a second while it scans you 360 degrees, then it lets you out the other side. They ask people at random if they'd mind testing it at the moment though if you say no they give you a full body search instead (so on those grounds I agreed, turned out good, everyone else waited 30 minutes to get through, took me 2 minutes...

kinda hard to describe but similar to the pod type things they have for entrance to telehouse (now there's a conspiracy)

 

[Craig321]

I've just been thinking, what would have happened if the terror plat to blow up planes over the Atlantic went ahead?

Imagine if we all woke up yesterday with the news that 8 planes had been blown up?

What would the state of the country currently be? What would the public's reaction be in your opinion?

Mal

Money for airports would drop a ton, people would be scared to fly.

 

[bigredshark]

Money for airports would drop a ton, people would be scared to fly.

I think that's overblown, it didn't happen half as much as people expected after 9/11 and everybody is back flying now anyway. If it happened I'd still fly. And so would everyone who had to for business. Not to mention everyone else with half a brain...

 

[Craig321]

I think that's overblown, it didn't happen half as much as people expected after 9/11 and everybody is back flying now anyway. If it happened I'd still fly. And so would everyone who had to for business. Not to mention everyone else with half a brain...

At first a lot of people would stop flying, but yeah as you say people will eventually fly again.

 

[penski]

And that is why I posted this in that thread. But questions would be asked. The "pre this week" hand luggage policies were absurd.

Jokester

A very good point - my apologies for missing it earlier

What disturbs me is that I cannot see how such events can be stopped.

I'm smarter than the average bear but I certainly don't hold quantum physicist levels of intelligence although I have to admit that my knowledge of DIY-surgery is greater than most

But even I can see that carrying on a device means that it may be discovered.

The average human being can, with a few month's (pain-free ) practice 'accomodate' an object of over 1 litre in capacity. Certainly enough to blow a hole in the side of a plane...And take out a wing if you're sat beside one.

All the 'plots' that we have been told about (shoes, liquids...) have been rather...dumb when you think about it.

So either we're facing a daily threat of being blown up by a group of people with two-digit IQs or we're not being told the whole story

*n

 

[ThriceNightly]

In the words of laloo from 6th element,

a biggg baadaaboom .

.........u mean 5th element

 

[bigredshark]

A very good point - my apologies for missing it earlier

What disturbs me is that I cannot see how such events can be stopped.

I'm smarter than the average bear but I certainly don't hold quantum physicist levels of intelligence although I have to admit that my knowledge of DIY-surgery is greater than most

But even I can see that carrying on a device means that it may be discovered.

The average human being can, with a few month's (pain-free ) practice 'accomodate' an object of over 1 litre in capacity. Certainly enough to blow a hole in the side of a plane...And take out a wing if you're sat beside one.

All the 'plots' that we have been told about (shoes, liquids...) have been rather...dumb when you think about it.

So either we're facing a daily threat of being blown up by a group of people with two-digit IQs or we're not being told the whole story

*n

There does seem to be an alarming risk of us all being killed by people who are really rather stupid, the tube bombing last year wold have been substancially worse if they'd though to target all deep lines rather than the the two that exploded on the circle line at edgware road and aldgate (small diameter tunnels on deep lines, more containment, more effect, harder rescue)

The fools who set up a to shoot down the isreali airliner in kenya (as i mentioned earlier), perfect set up, positioning, weapons worked fine. Security experts are at a loss as to how they managed to miss. The only one that appeared smarter was richard reid (shoe bomber), it took some though to realise that because of the proximity to the floor the archways wouldn't detect a bomb in his shoes. That suggested a modicum of intelligence, his farcical attempts to set light to his shoes from that point on seem to suggest it may have been someone else's brilliance...

 

[benjo plz.]

.........u mean 5th element

Something like that .

 

[Freefaller]

Typical sensationalism. Chaos, and a lack of thinking about the facts that wouldn't have been investigated or considered. Finger pointing, anger and resentment. An increase in national sketisism and paranoia, an increase in irrational fear and racism and generally a sad state of affairs.

Actually it'd probably be the last straw for me - I'd probably move away from the UK.

Everyone should be made to travel naked and put under general anaesthetic for the duration of the flight. Best way - if you can't use your laptop or read or listen to music that would be the ideal solution!

 

[DRZ]

I wouldnt have labelled the liquid idea as stupid at all, more a stroke of genius.

two seperate concealed cells of drink-coloured explosive liquid in a bottle of drink. Detonator carried on by someone else in something densely electronic (mobile phone, handheld game device or similar) and you have something that simply couldnt be detected by the security at the time.

Go to the loo one after the other and leave the bottles there, person 2 comes in, mixes them and detonates the bomb. Nobody any the wiser until the plane goes boom, unless other intelligence was gathered in the mean time. (Which it was).

What was stupid about that, other than their lack of secrecy leading up to the event that meant they were discovered?

 

[bigredshark]

I wouldnt have labelled the liquid idea as stupid at all, more a stroke of genius.

two seperate concealed cells of drink-coloured explosive liquid in a bottle of drink. Detonator carried on by someone else in something densely electronic (mobile phone, handheld game device or similar) and you have something that simply couldnt be detected by the security at the time.

Go to the loo one after the other and leave the bottles there, person 2 comes in, mixes them and detonates the bomb. Nobody any the wiser until the plane goes boom, unless other intelligence was gathered in the mean time. (Which it was).

What was stupid about that, other than their lack of secrecy leading up to the event that meant they were discovered?

Well it was simply copying an idea from 10 years ago, so inventiveness was limited. But it wasn't entirely stupid to be fair, and difficult to detect, a better bet for them would be tobase themselves outside the UK (somewhere with rubbish intelligence services) and get a transfer through a busy hub airport onto a US bound flight.

No, the liquids wasn't a bad plan, though if you read the current thinking about their plans its not as smooth as it sounds, you mix the liquids and the explosive is a crystaline white power, which needs to be dry before it'll detonate. It sounds like you'd be in the toilet for a while and you'd need a lot of liquid. If I remember correctly it also gives off fumes in a big way. It also isn't original really but still not bad,when you consider the problems of mixign the explosive as required on the plane though it looks a little farcical...

 

[zetec452]

blame.

 

[DarkShadow]

While the more sensible people would be saying things like:
*More Muslims blowing up people, I see a patten here lets blame the Muslims because there is obviously a problem with them in this country. **** political correctness and lets face the truth.

So 'sensible' people would say it's a war against Islam?