what would this country be like if .....

joeyjojo said:
Our local green candidate is a great guy. Really down to Earth.
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Unfortunately all the ones like that over here have been driven out of the Green Party but the upper class bellends, due to them expecting unrealistic things to happen. :(

Couple of the nice ones I strill work with, they're doing local community and grass roots stuff to help get people aware of the problems, just they no longer affiliate themselves with the Green Party.
 
hyperst said:
Please explain what is so bad about that, I would work for £8.10ph, I am sure I won't for £5.80ph
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Rubbish. That would put minimum wage at £400 a week, so say £320 with tax&ni taken off. This put minimum wage at around 16k

If someone is earning the same as i do in an unskilled job then I want my wage increasing (so will everyone else)

If anything the minimum wage should be lowered

Whoever gets into power needs to sort out the benefits system and immigration system
 
Guest2 said:
Whoever gets into power needs to sort out the benefits system and immigration system
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Yea, sort the benefit system so that there is an incentive for people to find work.
At the minute there are too many people who are actually better off by not working at all, it doesn't pay them to work. This is what needs to be addressed first and foremost IMO
 
hyperst said:
There is no need for personal condescending comments, thankyou, everyone is entitled to an opinion, unless thats now changed.

I dont believe it's warped to think of everybody as equal, what is warped is how people treat people.
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I think that is is delusional to believe this. What is not delusional is the aspiration that all people are given an equal opportunity from the beginning. It is however up to the individual as to what they make of this opportunity.

If you go through life believing that all men are equal you will not get very far. A doctor is worth more than a binman and I am worth more than somebody who is unskilled without an education.

Additionally, an increase in minuimum wage is not as simple as you like to think. All wages would have to increase to reflect the higher relative value of those who have required skills.
 
Guest2 said:
Whoever gets into power needs to sort out the benefits system and immigration system
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This, especially the benefits system. So the Greens are going for the carrot method thinking that a raised minimum wage will get these lazy oafs (by and large obviously I understand some people need to be on means tested benefit) into a job.

I dont think that will work, they dont want to work and the benefit system gives them so damn much they wont get off it unless forced. Cut the money in their pockets from the benefit system, put a clamp on all their lazy fun. Its not supposed to bew a free ride, its supposed to help those who are unable to get work. Its just got the the stage where it is utterly ridiculous and encourages people to scrounge from the government as opposed to getting a damn job.
 
joeyjojo said:
Hopefully more than double.

See my post above. Quantifying the cost of fossil fuels with an ecological slant puts it at hundreds of thousands of pounds per litre.
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Well I don't want that.

I grew up in the country and if I wanted to go anywhere I had to drive or be driven, the bus service is horrific, only a handful a day at unhelpful times and the cost is high.

What about people who have to drive to get anywhere or do anything? How would they live?
 
I like to think that petrol is ridiculously cheap, and that our society has become unhealthily dependant on it. Imagine how many man-hours it would cost to move a car at 70mph.
 
Josh P said:
I like to think that petrol is ridiculously cheap, and that our society has become unhealthily dependant on it. Imagine how many man-hours it would cost to move a car at 70mph.
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You could make the same argument to debunk virtualy everything thats happened since the industrial revolution. Do you really think we should give things a like sanitation as well.
 
joeyjojo said:
Hopefully more than double.

See my post above. Quantifying the cost of fossil fuels with an ecological slant puts it at hundreds of thousands of pounds per litre.
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Ecological slant ?

If I wouldn't be able to drive a car I would be far less willing to work, I work and go to uni so I can spend the money on consumer goods like electronics and driving. I work to earn money to buy goods, not work just to work ( though I must admit it's nice to have something to do rather than be bored and for the social side of it, but the main reason is the money).
 
snowdog said:
Ecological slant ?

If I wouldn't be able to drive a car I would be far less willing to work, I work and go to uni so I can spend the money on consumer goods like electronics and driving. I work to earn money to buy goods, not work just to work ( though I must admit it's nice to have something to do rather than be bored and for the social side of it, but the main reason is the money).
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My cousin is studying some eco degree, who first mentioned to me the idea of an "ecological" cost of things. A similar thing came up again the other night when I was reading this wikipedia article about Buckminster Fuller.

I wrote the same in post 71, but here it is again

Fuller cited de Chardenedes' opinion that petroleum, from the standpoint of its replacement cost out of our current energy "budget" (essentially, the net incoming solar flux), had cost nature £200,000 per litre to produce.
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Don't take it too literally, but the point is that fossil fuels are the result of many millions of years of solar flux and high pressure. Apparently de Chardenedes took the current electricity rates to reach an equivalent cost.

Don't take too literally ;) http://www.theoildrum.com/node/5152
 
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