What would you call an average wage?

The point is, if he overpaid with that £100, he would save £1.24 of interest for that year, vs the £16 profit he made investing it instead, so he is up a net of £14.76
Right, (and bear with me because for some reason my brain still can't slot this one into place) - PS has a 40% LTV and has extended his mortgage out to 32 years to free-up the "£100" in the example above.

Wouldn't the 32 year mortgage have more interest than the 25 year mortgage, 'net', during the 5 year fixed period at 1.17%?
 
Right, (and bear with me because for some reason my brain still can't slot this one into place) - PS has a 40% LTV and has extended his mortgage out to 32 years to free-up the "£100" in the example above.

Wouldn't the 32 year mortgage have more interest than the 25 year mortgage, 'net', during the 5 year fixed period at 1.17%?

The idea is realize those investment gains that (in this example) are more than 10x the interest of the mortgage.

If he can keep that 16% return going, it will more than cover the incremental interest costs of the extra 7 years (especially if he compounds the gains, 16% of £100 in the first month, 16% of £116 in the second, etc).

Not an easy feat, but works if you can manage it.

Actually, I will crunch the numbers.

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money...-calculator-Compare-true-cost-rates-fees.html

Both mortgages are £300k

1 is 25 years, 2 is 32 years
Interest is 1.24% over a 5 year period for both.

At the end of the 5 year deal, mortgage 1 (which costs £216 more per month) will have paid off £13k more of the overall mortgage.

If you can take that £216 a month, and make 4% return, every single month for the 60 month period, compounded that will leave you with £51.4k at the end of the term.

Subtract the £13k from that, it gives you £38.4k net that you are up that you can now dump on to your mortgage.

This is obviously rough and doesn't factor in any CGT or whatever you will pay on the £51k, but it will still leave you with a chunky sum.
 
Last edited:
Happy to admit I'm being really thick here. But a one off 16% on £100 versus 1.24% on £150000 are two very different beasts, no?

Yes. Because who pays £150k per month on their mortgage apart from Jay Z?

Okay I'll give you figures.

Mortgage is say circa £2k per month @ circa 3%. I decided to extend the term from 16 years to 32 years because deal rate is now a paltry 1.2%. My payment is now circa £800 a month thanks to both better rate and longer term. So I now have a spare £1200 a month in my pocket.

I could overpay the mortgage by that £1200 month and I'd save 1.24% per year compounded. Alternatively I can invest that £1200 across various investments, stocks and shares, gold, crypto, property, etc. I recently sold bitcoin at £42k and re-bought at £26k for instance that's after trading it once before and exchanging it to Ethereum for a quick pump before converting back and dumping it. Sold my SOLGOLD and smt shares after they were pumped I only made a paltry 8% on SMT though. I also sold several other shares which had pumped between 1-7% across the 10 or so I was in. I've now sold all of them bar one and I've put 50% of the cash that was allocated to all my individual stocks into a single stock and I didn't want to put all of it into 1 basket so I cashed the other 50% with 50% of the returns and put it elsewhere which is going to get me a guaranteed 20% return tomorrow and then I'll be putting it all back with the additional 20% into that single share which is why I'm not disclosing what that share is because I'm still in the market to buy it but if you look at previous posts I did mention SOLGOLD before it pumped 16% before I sold it yesterday a week or two back.

I also have money invested elsewhere in vanguard holding both vwrl and s&p 500 which is the bulk of my current investments bar property and gold which are long term holds.

It's not even worth buying £100 or so to make £16 FYI each trade buying and selling costs money as much as up to £10. So on £100 if you made 16% it cost you £20 to make £16 therefore a loss overall. Therefore you would have to make at least 20% to breakeven. My fees are less at circa £5-£7.50 per trade but it depends what platform I'm using. I also have wife's accounts setup I'm using too to maximise ISA and tax free allowances on CGT, etc therefore you can probably figure out from that the minimum I'm playing with otherwise why would I bother using her allowances as well
 
Right, (and bear with me because for some reason my brain still can't slot this one into place) - PS has a 40% LTV and has extended his mortgage out to 32 years to free-up the "£100" in the example above.

Wouldn't the 32 year mortgage have more interest than the 25 year mortgage, 'net', during the 5 year fixed period at 1.17%?

My mortgage only had 15 years left iirc. As a first time buyer 5 years ago I took out a 21 year mortgage term. I've now on my remortgage deal took out a 32-33 year deal I cannot recall the exact time because it doesn't really matter because it's the deal length that matter which is 5 years at circa 1.24% iirc. I can easily at any point in time pay my mortgage off in a lump sum or decrease the term in 5 years if I wanted to increase equity quicker.

The plan is to take as much money away from the mortgage whilst rates are low and make more elsewhere. It's same as student loans. If you have a student loan at 1.1% no point in repaying more than what your employer takes or what you send them after SA because the interest is so low it's easy to beat.

Even Zopa which I have money in too as well (peer to peer lending) is paying me 5% a year currently ROI which compounds.

As with any investment it can go down as well as up. So you should do your own research.
 
Gotcha. Thanks.

I think I had (without doing the maths) pictured the interest cost within the deal period as being significantly higher on the 32 year versus the 25 year. I've now done the maths and it is pretty negligible (I get 16,035 cost of interest @ 1.17% for the first 5 years of the 25 year; I get 16,416 cost of interest @ 1.17% for the first 5 years of the 32 year).
Thanks for taking the time to explain. Did you find a calculator which gave you an interest cost for the first 5 years of either deal? I couldn't and had to build one in Excel to get those numbers above. They only gave total interest charge over the full term.
 
Gotcha. Thanks.

I think I had (without doing the maths) pictured the interest cost within the deal period as being significantly higher on the 32 year versus the 25 year. I've now done the maths and it is pretty negligible (I get 16,035 cost of interest @ 1.17% for the first 5 years of the 25 year; I get 16,416 cost of interest @ 1.17% for the first 5 years of the 32 year).

Thanks for taking the time to explain. Did you find a calculator which gave you an interest cost for the first 5 years of either deal? I couldn't and had to build one in Excel to get those numbers above. They only gave total interest charge over the full term.

None of that really matters tbh so long as I can beat 1.24% yearly with the cash I'm "saving".

If I decided to take the £1200 and blow it instead of investing it then it matters but that's not my plan or intention. I was already investing and trading before I made the mortgage switch so this is just more funds for more growth and its no more time invested than I was already investing before just more money involved now thanks to larger disposable thanks to the switch.

I don't know what figures you have used for the interest calculator but my first deal was 5 years ago at 2.84% and 21 year term with 16 left to go. I'm now 1.24% on a 32 year term with the full term to go. Based on the old mortgage I'm saving interest anyway and I'm also now more focused on putting the money elsewhere for the next 5 years anyway since I've locked that deal in for 5 years and then I will see what is going on with interest rates and I may decide if I can't easily beat the rate just pay the mortgage off completely.

AMC went up 100% today absolutely mental. Imagine doubling your money in a day that is simply unheard of unless you strike it rich on a penny stock (which I would never buy unless I had insider info).
 
None of that really matters tbh so long as I can beat 1.24% yearly with the cash I'm "saving".

If I decided to take the £1200 and blow it instead of investing it then it matters but that's not my plan or intention. I was already investing and trading before I made the mortgage switch so this is just more funds for more growth and its no more time invested than I was already investing before just more money involved now thanks to larger disposable thanks to the switch.

I don't know what figures you have used for the interest calculator but my first deal was 5 years ago at 2.84% and 21 year term with 16 left to go. I'm now 1.24% on a 32 year term with the full term to go. Based on the old mortgage I'm saving interest anyway and I'm also now more focused on putting the money elsewhere for the next 5 years anyway since I've locked that deal in for 5 years and then I will see what is going on with interest rates and I may decide if I can't easily beat the rate just pay the mortgage off completely.

AMC went up 100% today absolutely mental. Imagine doubling your money in a day that is simply unheard of unless you strike it rich on a penny stock (which I would never buy unless I had insider info).
The reason I kept coming back to values was because in my mind I had "costed" the first 5 years of your 32 year deal significantly higher than what a 20/25 year deal would be.

Turns out it was only ~£400 (32 year versus 25 year). So once you have made ~£400 returns on your investments, the additional net interest cost is dealt with. Obviously now I know it is such a tiny cost, the rest of the story all makes a lot more sense now.

Thanks for bearing with me :cry::D

Edit: for context I had no idea what the 32 versus 25 year net values would be, so I think I had some stupid number in my subconscious like 10k.
 
The reason I kept coming back to values was because in my mind I had "costed" the first 5 years of your 32 year deal significantly higher than what a 20/25 year deal would be.

Turns out it was only ~£400 (32 year versus 25 year). So once you have made ~£400 returns on your investments, the additional net interest cost is dealt with. Obviously now I know it is such a tiny cost, the rest of the story all makes a lot more sense now.

Thanks for bearing with me :cry::D

Edit: for context I had no idea what the 32 versus 25 year net values would be, so I think I had some stupid number in my subconscious like 10k.

Like I said before with rates so low at just a pinch over 1% it's a no brainer. I overpaid my mortgage during the last 5 years because 2.84% was a good guaranteed return. I did also invest elsewhere apart from just 100% of my spare cash going into overpayments. Diversification is key but now nothing is going into overpayments thanks to my new deal the rate is so low I don't need to worry about it which is why I upped the term too to absolutely rinse it to the max whilst I can.
 
It's not really the question but feeling comfortable can be done on a very low wage, I have no mortgage, never need to look in my bank account (app tells me what's going out security wise) and have savings far exceeding my annual salary also wouldn't give a damn if my job finished tommorow

Could you say the same if you didn't own a home outright and had no savings?
 
Yeah, odd post that one.

Like, "you too can feel comfortable on a low, low wage: simply have loads of assets!"

Dunno why I never thought of that.

Assets built up on low wages, because i have no interest in buying unnecessary items i.e having a bank loan for a new, just over poverty spec Bmw just to look like one of the other suits ,yawn
Instead since joining this forum ,buy house A in Yorkshire ,update house A in Yorkshire ,pay mortgage off in 9 years on house A in Yorkshire.
(moon man sips coffee and continues on resolutely ) buy house B in Cornwall with a big juicy wad off cash ,tootles off to low paid job while house B skyrockets because half the population also wants to be here.
as said previously people earn more they spend more but usually on useless trinkets .
(moon man sips more coffee and listens to the sound of various bird calls outside his stunning property ,house B)
could i do this now if i was starting out ,err probably not but i don't need to ,this time next year Rodney ? maybe not next year but in the next 5
 
Can you run me through how you managed to purchase, upgrade and pay off a house in 9 years on a low wage?
  • Deposit paid - source of this?
  • Purchase price
  • Average Monthly payments made
  • What your wage was that you consider low
  • Other income - spouse, inheritance etc?

I'm not having a go but, if you re-read what you have said in both your last posts as an "outsider" without this info, it doesn't appear to add up.
 
Can you run me through how you managed to purchase, upgrade and pay off a house in 9 years on a low wage?
  • Deposit paid - source of this?
  • Purchase price
  • Average Monthly payments made
  • What your wage was that you consider low
  • Other income - spouse, inheritance etc?

I'm not having a go but, if you re-read what you have said in both your last posts as an "outsider" without this info, it doesn't appear to add up.

I would say it is possible especially if you had no kids. We have 9 years left of our 20 year mortgage. We only pay 450 a month but we could have quite easily done 900 a month without kids. Back when we bought our house we were only on mid twenties each. Saying that our deposit was £25% but I was doing up to 80 hour weeks and saved hard. I think there is legislation against that many hours now though :p.

Things are a lot different now however as our house has gained 50% of its value over ten years which is pretty nuts. I was very lucky to have cash to buy when pretty much no one else did.
 
Last edited:
I would say it is possible especially if you had no kids. We have 9 years left of our 20 year mortgage. We only pay 450 a month but we could have quite easily done 900 a month without kids. Back when we bought our house we were only on mid twenties each. Saying that our deposit was £25% but I was doing up to 80 hour weeks and saved hard. I think there is legislation against that many hours now though :p.

Things are a lot different now however as our house has gained 50% of its value over ten years which is pretty nuts. I was very lucky to have cash to buy when pretty much no one else did.
Surely depends on how much your house was too, I'm guessing between 100-200k as your mortgage was similar to ours.
 
Can you run me through how you managed to purchase, upgrade and pay off a house in 9 years on a low wage?
  • Deposit paid - source of this?
  • Purchase price
  • Average Monthly payments made
  • What your wage was that you consider low
  • Other income - spouse, inheritance etc?

I'm not having a go but, if you re-read what you have said in both your last posts as an "outsider" without this info, it doesn't appear to add up.

Likley a cheap house or he borrowed well within his means. The problem these days is people go to the bank and borrow as much as they possibly can not understanding the interest or long term consequences should something change.

I can speak from experience that I didn't do this I as a first time buyer went for a 21 year mortgage what that means is my monthly payments initially for the first 5 years were sky high compared to the purchase price and my interest was sky high too because the rate offered to low LTV buyers is worse. So I had incentive to overpay my already built in overpayments because of the reduced term so I was overpaying essentially twice compared to if I had just done what everyone else does these days which is take out a 35 year mortgage. I wish I had gone for a 2 year fix now as I would have been able to secure a much better rate because of the substantially better LTV after 2 years. 5 years in and now sat at 40% LTV so 60% paid off within 5 years. I've now done the opposite and stopped overpayments and extended the mortgage to invest elsewhere. What this will allow me to do is in 10 years time just buy my next home cash and I expect the next home to cost 3 times as much as my current home did as I will be looking to move to the absolute best area with the best public school in the country and parents just sold their home there for circa £800k a couple of years back to downsize so I'm taking 10 years of gain into account too when I will be looking to buy in 10 years time prices will only be higher.

People are fighting compound interest by borrowing the absolute maximum they can and looking to move up the ladder too early. I know someone for example who took substantial money from parents to buy 6 years ago. Borrowed the max. Is now moving again and again is taking money from parents to do so and again is borrowing the max. Living well above their means.

Terrible financial decisions and no business acumen are to blame for a lot of people's problems money wise. Buy low, pay low interest, save your disposable instead of leasing fancy cars 3 levels above your station and invest it to gain from compound interest or compounded returns from gains and dividends.

If on an average wage you put 15% into a S&S ISA and invest in a world index tracker. You would have circa £3 million iirc after 30 years sitting there.

That's 15% of the average wage and £3 million. Yet folk would rather spend it all to pretend to be doing well when they actually could be doing well.

It always amazes me when friends ask me for advice on cars I tell them to just get something from lexus for £15k second hand and invest the rest they come home with a £70k audi then complain about being skint all the time and they aren't making enough money.

I believe the rule is 50-30-20.

50% should be going on what you need to survive, the essentials, home, car, utilities, food, clothing, insurance and fuel.
30% is luxury spending holidays and days and nights out.
20% should be put into savings.

If everyone did that then I have absolutely no hesitation to say they wouldn't be struggling financially and would be able to easily afford to pay off their homes and move up the ladder.

Sit down make a spreadsheet with budgets for each of the 3 pots and then go write down what all your bills are and see how far off the 50-30-20 ratio you are.
 
Can you run me through how you managed to purchase, upgrade and pay off a house in 9 years on a low wage?
  • Deposit paid - source of this?
  • Purchase price
  • Average Monthly payments made
  • What your wage was that you consider low
  • Other income - spouse, inheritance etc?

I'm not having a go but, if you re-read what you have said in both your last posts as an "outsider" without this info, it doesn't appear to add up.

I think with moon there are special circumstances. As it seems near impossible I agree
 
If on an average wage you put 15% into a S&S ISA and invest in a world index tracker. You would have circa £3 million iirc after 30 years sitting there.

That's 15% of the average wage and £3 million. Yet folk would rather spend it all to pretend to be doing well when they actually could be doing well.


I'd like to see the numbers on that...
 
I'd like to see the numbers on that...

Takes all of 20 seconds on excel.

Give me what 15% of your monthly household income is after tax and I'll give you the 30 year figure.

It's £2.8 million for £400 a month based on S&P 500 historic performance.

As you can see it doesn't take a lot of money it just takes time and compounded gains of the stock market.
 
Takes all of 20 seconds on excel.

Give me what 15% of your monthly household income is after tax and I'll give you the 30 year figure.

It's £2.8 million for £400 a month based on S&P 500 historic performance.

As you can see it doesn't take a lot of money it just takes time and compounded gains of the stock market.


It's bold you think you will get 15% average for the next 30 years. I reckon you will be grateful to have £800k (last 30 years performance, based on annual compounding that I quickly did in Excel)
 
Back
Top Bottom