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Care to elaborate? The question seems to have brought up pretty valid arguments from both sides.
Poll: What would you rather have? 2:2 from a top-ranked uni or a 2:1 from a low-ranked uni
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Care to elaborate? The question seems to have brought up pretty valid arguments from both sides.
Soldato
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No graduate job would take you if you have a 2:2, even if it's from Oxbridge. Whilst some companies discriminate based on your university, a 2:1 is always better than a 2:2 in terms of job prospects.
Now, I'd probably rather have a 2:1 from a top ranked uni than a 1st from a low-ranked uni, but there's a crossover. At a certain point they're probably about equal, and top 20, I'd probably rather have a 1st from rather than a 2:1 from top 5.
kd
Hmm.. Looking back, I've probably worded it a lot wrong. I should have asked is it fair that graduate schemes would be more likely to take someone with a 2:1 from a low-ranked university than someone who got a 2:2 from a top ranked uni.
Or in simpler terms does 2:2 from top uni> 2:1 from low ranked uni?
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Man of Honour
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I think First vs 2:2 is a bit too wider of a gap. Firsts are usually harder to get even at the bottom of the spectrum.
I rate 2:2's from the top 5 above 2:1's from lower than the top 20 when looking at CV's.
Man of Honour
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I'd disagree with that, I've got uni mates who got onto grad schemes asking for 2:1's with a 2:2. I know someone with a 3rd who got straight into UBS, although that's much more of an edge case.
Yeah it is, I suppose. I've changed it now.
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Not really, in fact I'd say it was a very good one.
Someone I know graduated from Oxford with a 2:2. They are by far the cleverest person I've ever met, yet the 2:2 has ruled them out of every job who all require 2:1's. (The 2:2 was due to extreme circumstances).
Compare that to someone who could get a 2:1 just by showing up at a crap university.
In this scenatio - a 2:2 from Oxford absolutely. In the case that the Universities were more closely ranked, it would swing the other way.
Department depending, Nottingham is actually not such a great University for undergraduate study - at least not any more. Rapid expansion in the past decade or so has increased student numbers - primarily via overseas students for whom the entry requirements are not too strict (aside from the high fees of course). You'd have to look VERY low down the list before I'd take a Nottingham 2:2 over a first from elsewhere. I know all too well how little is required to attain a Nottingham 2:2 (I'm a post-doc researcher at Nottingham and I deal with undergrad and PhD students on a daily basis).
Of course, having a 2:2 would be more restrictive if your intention was to get a traditional graduate placement. In the majority of cases you would not get through the paper sift - which puts you out of the game before you even have a chance to showcase your abilities at interview. When it comes to academia though (i.e. postgraduate study) I can tell you for a fact that we look a lot more closely at what the actual course taken involves. Courses from top Universities look at a much wider range of topics in such a lot more depth than "mid-ranking" Universities. I know this will not be a popular thing to say, but there truly is a huge gulf (at least in maths / physics / engineering disciplines).
We would almost certainly value a 2:2 from Oxford above a 1st from London Met when looking at PhD candidacy (for example), although in the end it would obviously boil down to the way the student handled himself in the interview. If that exceptional student from London Met could answer the relevant questions better than the 2:2 student from Oxford, then he would get the position. It doesn't really happen very often though...
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In my five years post university not one person has asked what I got
Yeah I think it would have been fairer to do 2:2 at high ranked uni vs 2:1 at low ranked.
What about that? That guy who got notts with 2:2 against his friend who got a 2:1 at a much lower ranked university.
Hmm... tough to say. I can only speak knowledgeably from the perspective of academia. In this case we would look at the specifics of the course (some "low" ranking Universities have disproportionately good courses in certain subjects and vice versa). We would also look at the modules taken, and how well they relate to the work we have planned.
For a career in industry though, I'd still have to go with the 2:1. In a lot of cases having a 2:2 means you simply won't get through the initial paper sift. Finding a good graduate job will be much more difficult...
The difference between a 2:1 and a 2:2 is by far the largest of any of the grades - at least in terms of external perception.
Soldato
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The key factor here is that on graduate schemes there will be plenty of applicants from the top tier unis with 2:1s anyway. The fact a 2:2 gets knocked out by auto filtering doesn't mean the 2:1 or first from a lesser uni will get through all the rounds and get the job anyway. It's a bit of a moot point.
They cap at 2:1 because there are enough graduates with that grade and above in the jobs market. It's a simple but harsh reality. A few years of experience down the line and all things being equal, people still get filtered by uni grades.
The only time degree class becomes less relevant is when the person with a higher class has less experience or is simply not qualified to do the job so then it falls on the applicants ability to do the job rather than their degree class.
They cap at 2:1 because there are enough graduates with that grade and above in the jobs market. It's a simple but harsh reality. A few years of experience down the line and all things being equal, people still get filtered by uni grades.
The only time degree class becomes less relevant is when the person with a higher class has less experience or is simply not qualified to do the job so then it falls on the applicants ability to do the job rather than their degree class.
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Soldato
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Ok, perhaps I should have said, the majority.
All of them have get out clauses where they can accept others.
Personal experience, has been that any of the companies I'd actually like to work at in my industry are a 2:1 minimum.
kd
Soldato
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just get a 2.1 because nobody cares, this is why university is a joke.
BRB 2.1 leisure in tourism vs. 2.2 in maths.
BRB 2.1 leisure in tourism vs. 2.2 in maths.
I had £40k p/a job lined up after graduation. I ended up with a 2.2 from Warwick, and the job offer was withdrawn...
Currently doing a masters and averaging a distinction (no way am I letting my grades slip again), but even with a higher degree most employers rule you out based on your undergraduate grade.
Looking at the syllabus at lesser universities I'm sure I could have got a 2.1
BUT... I still think that going to the best institution I could was the right choice. I've has so many more options and opportunities than any of my friends at other universities, and I am now very confident again about my future prospects.
Getting a 2.2 has set my earnings back by a 2-3 years, but I'm not sure whether I would have even had the option to do so if I went to a lesser uni
Currently doing a masters and averaging a distinction (no way am I letting my grades slip again), but even with a higher degree most employers rule you out based on your undergraduate grade.
Looking at the syllabus at lesser universities I'm sure I could have got a 2.1
BUT... I still think that going to the best institution I could was the right choice. I've has so many more options and opportunities than any of my friends at other universities, and I am now very confident again about my future prospects.
Getting a 2.2 has set my earnings back by a 2-3 years, but I'm not sure whether I would have even had the option to do so if I went to a lesser uni
What are you studying?
I did it right (kindof). I screwed up my physics/maths A levels, got into middling uni but did well and went onto a masters and got a distinction. My first job after uni was a short consultancy set up by one of the profs earning nearly 300 a day
It was a foot in the door too...Connections are super important!
What are you studying?
I did it right (kindof). I screwed up my physics/maths A levels, got into middling uni but did well and went onto a masters and got a distinction. My first job after uni was a short consultancy set up by one of the profs earning nearly 300 a day
It was a foot in the door too...Connections are super important!
Maths & Physics BSc
Cyber Security and Management MSc
Yeah, I'm making much more connections this year
Couple of potential business start-up opportunities to explore too.
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I got a 1st from Reading which isn't a good uni, but it's not tragic (ranked 32 on the Times list). If however I went to a top 10, maybe top 20 uni, I can guarantee I wouldn't have achieved that, and would probably have struggled to get a 2:1, so I can see your friend's annoyance.
I think it depends on what line of work you want to go in. I'm pretty sure my employers don't know how good/bad 90% of the universities are so will be more impressed with the actual grade.
I think a 2:2 is looked on too harshly as well these days. 2:2 in physics from Oxford vs 2:1 in Philosophy from Bolton, I'm pretty sure a lot of employers will write off the 2:2 off the bat just because of the grade. I sure know who I'd rather employ (regardless of the job)!
I think it depends on what line of work you want to go in. I'm pretty sure my employers don't know how good/bad 90% of the universities are so will be more impressed with the actual grade.
I think a 2:2 is looked on too harshly as well these days. 2:2 in physics from Oxford vs 2:1 in Philosophy from Bolton, I'm pretty sure a lot of employers will write off the 2:2 off the bat just because of the grade. I sure know who I'd rather employ (regardless of the job)!