What's the most sensible way to go about things?

MeEsH BaKkA

MeEsH BaKkA

MeEsH BaKkA

Soldato
Joined
12 Dec 2002
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I'm literally about to book my DAS tests but, my parents are having kittens (im 25 next month) my mum is flat out frightened of bikes and my dad rode bikes for years and used to do speedway (something my 12yr old brother is now starting) and is 110% certain I will end up dead riding on the road.

Obviously I'm old enough to make my own decisions which I have and don't live with either of my parents, but I want to try an limit my chances of death/severe injury. I know it's the others on the road which are the main danger (my job means I spend lots of time driving in and around London so I have seen many a retard) but what kind of further training is there and what do you guys think of trackdays for a novice rider? Also I was thinking of getting an SV650 as my first bike but am in 2 minds if I should start on a smaller bike but at 100kg I'm not light!

As for safety gear I have a Shoei xr1100, force field sub 4 back protector, my dads unused Oxtar TCS CE boots (OMG the squeaks), then an alpinestars textile armourd jacket, textile armoured trousers and finally Alpinestars SP2 gloves. I want to get a 1pc suit but need to save up and find one that fits... 36" waist 29" inside leg and 5' 9" I'm built like a sofa on casters.... :D
 
Ah, In a Similar position to myself, I am just about to start my DAS as Ill be riding to and from London from Luton and was also looking at SV650, GSF Bandit or a Honda Hornet.

Personally I plan on doing my DAS and then going on to do the advanced riders courses and doing a few ride outs with the guys ill be training with (they do monthly ride outs).
 
My mum was the same and I'm 37. We've had a couple of family deaths over the years on bikes and my mums a panic merchant. The one way that I got her to calm down (bear in mind I've not lived with them since I was 21 lol) was to state... "you seemed ok when I rode my road bike for miles and miles when training, this is safer! cycylsists are more likely to get hit and have ZERO protection".

She argued a little but did get my point.

However, as I'm ewn to biking (5 weeks ago I passed my DAS), the main thing I can adverise is:

  • Make sure you have all the gear which you seem to have an NEVER take a chance with the "only popping down the road, I'll wear my lid with some speedo's and flipflops" as that is the time a car will hit you! You need to have GOOD gear, not cheap ****, got for makes and CE approved.
  • Take it easy once passed. I bought a CBR600F4 with 108bhp... however I took it easy, rode like a pasny on the bends etc and rode my own speed. Slowly and surely I'm inreasing confidence and ability. I project I might be good in 3 years lol.
  • Practice practice and practise makes perfect. The DAS is silly really, it's like driving test... "stating your safe to go on the road". In the real world, it's experience and common sense that does this, not a piece of paper. Get HOURS and HOURS in the seat done. I've done 2100 miles since I passed... for me, I'm not even 10% of what the bike can do.
  • The SV650 was one of my choices as was a Kawa ER6... however fell in love with the CBR600 and that was that. At the end of the day, don't go bigger than a 650 as the sheer weight gets bigger and 650's are a nice balance. If you buy an R1, it'll only go as fast as your throttle hand BUT it's too tempting and if you're anything like me, it'll be "wonder how fast it can go"... next thing you're into a corner quicker, panic, hit brakes... OFF. Take it easy fella!
 
It depends a lot on you as a person, are you sensible and level headed? You see a lot of people say that it's always the car drivers fault and yes at times it is, but a lot of the deaths on the road are the riders error as well. The biggest life saver is experience, knowing your bike, the road conditions, whats up ahead and in the mind set that no car has seen you and wants to knock you off, making assumptions is the biggest mistake!

Having decent gear is a good start, wearing a one piece over decent textiles and such won't make a massive difference. If you go down and slide down the road it might not hurt so much but sliding is the least of your worries, it's what you hit is the problem! Personally when I stick my one piece on I go into racer mode and think I have to ride faster everywhere.

After doing the first year on a moped I got myself a Aprilia RS125 which was a great little bike to learn on but due to my lack of experience I dropped it twice in the two years I had it. Once time on the way to college in the winter early morning a car jammed its brakes on infront of me and I was going a bit too fast after just being in a petrol station touched my front brake and the next thing I know I'm lying down looking at my bike on its side. The second time was the winter after in the dark I was following a car up a hill it hit its brakes again I went for mine and lost the front since I was outside a school which covered the road in grit to stop ice the next morning! Now I've had an R6 for nearly two years and have been fine, it was a big step up but I worked myself into it, the bigger bike is a lot more stable and in some ways easier to ride.

Don't get me wrong, I'm by no means perfect and still make mistakes and bad calls now and then and in all honesty ride like a d*ck at times especially if I'm in a bad mood. Extra training may or may not help you, it depends on you as a person and what you take from it but they can only teach you so much a lot you have to see for yourself.

Both my parents hated it when I started riding even though my Dad has ridden all his life, its natural. Heck my Mum still worries about me as I commute to work on my bike each day.
 
Thanks for the advice :)

I have quite a fear of giving it too much then getting well out of my depth, but I know what you mean it's tempting to use what's a available :)

Edit: just seen the other post. Tbh I'm fairly cautious and I drive about 25-30k a year for my job most of it in London so have a fair bit of road experience but never anything on a bike. I do drive like a bell sometimes on B roads in my car but I prefer trackdays for hooning. As for the 1 piece, I was thinking more of the riding up when sliding as the textile stuff I have only has a zip at the back for the jacket/trousers, not good for sliding on your side?
 
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I passed 31st of May and went and bought a Bandit 650. Now I have had a bit of fun down the dual carriageways up to 60mph and then backing off and I found thats more than enough fun for me.

Was out for 4 hours last Saturday on the twisties and I was taking it easy but the whole time the temptation to push it is always there. I just think to myself 'get cocky and you loose a truck load off money, pride, dignity and worst you're life that you very much enjoy'.

This works for me as I want to get to Germany on the bike next year to visit my old homes so I can have that mini trip down memory lane that i have wanted for years. (I dont drive a car yet by the way lol)

I spent £600 on riding gear and that was after £100 discount for a full buy from the shop.

I have already had to do an avoidance swerve and pretty much an emergency stop but I found both situations fine as I stayed calm and I had used the training from my instructor but i feel if i was going for it I would have been off already.

'Take it easy and learn' is only as difficult as you make it regardless of your driving experience.
 
Well it depends on the speed you're doing, obviously leathers provide more protection it just depends what you're doing if it's commuting or enjoying the weather. I only squeeze into my 1 piece on a nice day :p

The first time I came off I had jeans on and a textile jacket doing about 30 and lets just say I don't go riding in jeans anymore. The second time I had all my textiles on and although it was a bit slower I was fine I was just very angry as I'd recently sprayed the damn bike!

When I first hopped on my R6 after my RS125 I was quite nervous, I took it fairly easy to begin with and built myself up it just depends how much you trust yourself I guess. But when riding it's a lot different to driving, you will look out for and remember where every manhole cover and pothole is, you will be staring at those white lines on wet days and remember where busy trucks and workloads are humped around regularly and tend to leave clay/grit/gravel etc all over the road and when you see all the diesel/petrol on the roads in the wet you will be taking it very easy (I hope)!
 
Incinerat0r said:
Well it depends on the speed you're doing, obviously leathers provide more protection it just depends what you're doing if it's commuting or enjoying the weather. I only squeeze into my 1 piece on a nice day :p

The first time I came off I had jeans on and a textile jacket doing about 30 and lets just say I don't go riding in jeans anymore. The second time I had all my textiles on and although it was a bit slower I was fine I was just very angry as I'd recently sprayed the damn bike!

When I first hopped on my R6 after my RS125 I was quite nervous, I took it fairly easy to begin with and built myself up it just depends how much you trust yourself I guess. But when riding it's a lot different to driving, you will look out for and remember where every manhole cover and pothole is, you will be staring at those white lines on wet days and remember where busy trucks and workloads are humped around regularly and tend to leave clay/grit/gravel etc all over the road and when you see all the diesel/petrol on the roads in the wet you will be taking it very easy (I hope)!
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Not to be facetious but if you stare at the white lines you'll probably ride right over them :P
 
Don't get a smaller bike, the SV is a great starter, has a good power to weight ratio and will help you get used to this game. smaller bikes, even 125's are usually **** poor and you have almost no of the advantages of 600's, higher riding position, faster take off...

As for the best way to go about surviving, first off, yes make sure you have all the gear but don't rely on it - i.e. don't let it lull you into a false sense of security. Yes it will protect you from sliding down the road burning a hole in your arse, but even the best leathers will NOT protect you from impacting the road from 8 feet in the air after T-boning a car at 30mph. Bear in mind that brakes on brake discs will stop you much faster then leathers on tarmac.

With this in mind, its best to get it into your head that its probably advisable not to crash in the first place.

To do this follow a few simple rules.

1. Leave your self plenty of time and don't rush.
2. Develop an imaginary "bubble" around yourself. An area that is yours and that you will not put yourself in a position that anyone else will be able to enter that bubble. Use sight, ears and even smell (diesel on the road) to protect your bubble. In particular always leave loads of space to the car in front, and take a road position that allows you to defend your bubble - i.e to the left of the road when turning left so that someone cant come up your inside, to the centre of the road when going straight so that some cocky car driver wont try and squeeze you out of the lane (happens).
3. Always, always, always do your lifesavers.
4. Use speed when it is appropriate. To get yourself out of a blind spot (do a google search for the triangle of death), or to pull away from the front after filtering to the front at the lights. Do not go hell to leather at any chance you get because you will get caught out.
5. Make sure you acknowlege all the road signs; t-junction ahead, solid white lines in the road (they are put there by people who know more about that particular road than you do), watch out for junctions and even drop kerbs etc etc. Sometimes signs can help you out, like the blue bus lane signs.
6. Only ever overtake stationary traffic at a slow speed - especially when there is a drop kerb or junction up ahead - this is even more imporatnt when you are in bus lanes - if a vehicle has left a gap in front of it when stationary, its usually because they have flashed to allow someone turn - bad news if you are filtering/overtaking/in a bus lane. Basically watch out for people turning across your path as this will more than likely kill you at anything above 35 mph - this is your biggest risk as you will stop fast and hard.
7. Always make eye contact with people who are about to turn out of junctions, just to make sure they have seen you.
8. Don't try to keep up with couriers - they are better than you.
9. Get a loud pipe. Loud pipes save lives - yours and pedestrians.
10. Watch out for ipod heroes on foot.
 
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Thanks, just been reading up on the 'triangle of death' not something I had though about but makes lots of sense :)

Point No 10... There are bad enough when I'm driving my works van which is big and silver, I can only imagine how oblivious to a bike they could be...

I was speaking to my dad last night and he is insistent that I do my CBT and get a 125 for a few months to get "used" to riding and to get some experience, citing things like: if I lowside on a manhole I have less chance of breaking a leg and I don't have enough power to get spat off getting overconfident with the throttle. He still does not want me to get one but he is saying dont run before I can walk. Tbh picking up a cheap 125 for a couple of months does not sound too bad IMO but at 100+KG I will not be going anywhere fast, a good thing.
 
Do DAS.

I dont drive a car so I did my CBT and theory to make sure that I did want to get a bike. I then booked 5 2 hour lessons on the 650 and then the DAS.

I did it, 1minor on MOD1 and 3 minors on MOD2, went and got my Bandit 650. Not bad for a non car driver :)

Just dont get a 600 supersport. Keep it less powerfull and you will be fine, the 600 sit ups are sooo easy to ride and confidence inspiring with max comfort and a dom site safer feeling than a 125cc. The guys on here are far more experienced than me and I have heeded advice from them.

Get DAS done NOW :D
 
Liek I said in my post, personally I'd always advicate getting experience... I was lucky I used my sons cbr125 while I was doing the DAS and racked up 700 miles ish from my CBT pass to my Mod1 test. Dont' get me wrong, does this make me great NO... however I know that I was 1000% more confident etc when riding on the big bikes die to my miles on the 125. 125's can be lots and lots of fun, just because they don't go as quick, doesn't mean you can't have a great time. I went down country lanes, main roads, duel carriage ways and enjoyed every minute of the 125 and if was taking DAS again, I'd do the 125 route as well. However, once I'd passed, there's no way I was going to ride "just" a 125... and wanted something that I knew I could grow into... as my ability grew, so the bike would respond and I wouldn't get into a position of wnating to upgrade.

Therefore, SV650 is perfect, they sound fantastic for obviousl reasons and it's not fast enough that you'll be doing 145mph lol... easy to ride, believe me, you'll enjoy it.
 
DAS it is then :)

I came so close to booking a couple of months ago but my GF ended up in hospital and put it off which led to my dad going to work on me about danger.
 
Do it but remember that the training to get on a bike these days is considerably different compared to when your father did it! I am sure some of the older riders can tell you what they went through for their licence compared to me.

And understand that your partner and family may be against it being a loved one and all so don't be rebellious about it and stay sensible :D

Gosh I think I have just had 'what I will be like as a Dad' moment haha!
 
MeEsH BaKkA said:
DAS it is then :)

I came so close to booking a couple of months ago but my GF ended up in hospital and put it off which led to my dad going to work on me about danger.
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Just for interest sake how much does your local motorbike training school charge for a das course myne was about 700 quid ?
 
Personally I'm not a fan of DAS.

If you havent ever ridden a bike before, can you reasonably expect to become competent on a 5 day course where you will be likely sharing the tutours attention with 10 other people? How much actual road riding experience are you likely to get?

Personally I would find yourself a good 1 on 1 instructor and do lessons over a period of months. You will learn a lot more, and ultimately be safer.

Anyways Lt_Red's post is spot on ;)

But to add and reiterate a couple of things:

If and when you pass, I would certainly suggest further training, preferably on a 1 on 1 basis. There are loads of advanced instructors and the police run bike safe courses are worth a look.

Generally you want to avoid 'pack' riding. Riding in a group is nice but I would suggest that as a new rider it may encourage you to ride beyond your ability and that can end in tragedy. Of course you can learn from other bikers, but I personally always ride for myself and dont try and mimick their ability.

ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS wear your protective gear. Gonna be 2 minutes to pop to the shop for some milk? WEAR YOUR GEAR!! Even at 30mph the tarmac will take your flesh down to the bone in seconds. I have met some young but seriously messed up lads because they 'just popped out' without their gear on. As mentioned your gear is a last resort but it can save life and limb. My dad still has a leg because he was wearing his gear during a very nasty biking accident. To that end, get the best quality gear you can.

Never rush or hurry. Thats how you end up dead. Never be pressured into doing ANY manoeuvre that you are not comfortable with. Thats how you end up dead.

Keep your distance. SOOOOO many riders get sucked into sitting on the back bumper of a car when they are in traffic. Even a low speed nock will probably leave you with broken wrists and a broken bike. Higher speed ones will leave you in a box.

Never go belting around corners that you cant see around. Sounds like page 1 stuff but so many bikers fall foul because there is a stationary vehicle or something pulling out from a concealed entrance.

Ride a defensive line.

Make yourself as visible as possible - ride with your headlights on (older bikes are not hard wired on), wear high vis clothing and try not to position yourself in blind spots.

NEVER overtake if there is a junction anywhere near you, even if its on the opposite side of the road. I saw someone get seriously hurt because they did an overtake with a T junction to their right. The car driver came out of it looking to HIS right for oncoming traffic because he was turning left. He didnt look left to see the biker making a risky overtake so pulled out and BAM. Lights out.

Nearly happened to me when I was a new rider and a bit green behind the ears too.

ALWAYS beware of blind crests and hidden dips. Pay attention to the road signs and approach such areas with caution. If its a big dip it can conceal a HGV and if you pull out to overtake at the wrong time......Dead. Likewise, blind crests can lead into dips and there can be stationary vehicles or junctions so approach with caution.

Learn how to read the road and learn how to use vanishing points. Try and develop your forward hazard perception and try and see things happen before they do. Experienced bikers appear to have a 6th sense, but it takes time to develop it. Use markers to help when reading the road, such as tree lines, hedgerows, telegraph poles etc. they caan all help to give you an idea of where the road is likely to head and whether it has other roads leading into it (IE potential junctions).

Know your bike. Inside and out.

Expect everyone to pull out on you. Expect everyone to not use their mirrors. Expect everyone to suddenly brake for no reason. Expect everyone to trry and kill you, and ride accordingly.

REMEMBER - in the city road markings and signs will most likely be accurate, however out on the open road please read the road as well as using road signs. Just because there isnt a sign for a bend or a junction, does not mean there isnt one there!

Finally, never use the rider in front as a focus point, because A) he might be a bad rider, and B) it narrows your own hazerd perceptions down to a tunnel vision like state. On this note - I nearly died because I did this. I was following my brother and he took a nice left hander on a country B road. I mimmicked his line, and saw he hadnt braked so I didnt either. As soon as I entered the bend I knew I was in trouble. I ran wide into the oncoming lane and stopped a foot short of an oncoming tracter with 2 big metal prongs on the front of it. I was lucky because A) he saw me and slowed down, B) he wasnt a car, seeing as it was a 60mph zone. If he had of been I would probably be dead.

It turns out my brother DID brake for the bend, but his brake light bulb had popped earlier so didnt light up. Theres a moral in this story if you want to look for it ;)

Have fun and good luck :)

Cheers

Buff
 
BuffetSlayer said:
If you havent ever ridden a bike before, can you reasonably expect to become competent on a 5 day course where you will be likely sharing the tutours attention with 10 other people? How much actual road riding experience are you likely to get?
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Um when I did my 3 day DAS it was fully one on one with every day spent out riding. I've ridden bikes before so 2 1/2 days with the test in the afternoon was totally fine. There was another guy in the same school we met for lunch, never ridden or driven before but he passed first time after 4 1/2 days training and the instructor said he was perfectly fine.

So safe enough to not kill yourself after a 5 day DAS, yeah totally. Good enough to pass a police spec test or win a race of course not.
 
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