Wheels - Handbuilt vs Factory

[Big.Wayne]

off topic:

BB7s are okay but BB5s are not something I would recommend to people. These days in fact I wouldn't recommend BB7s over alternatives such as TRP Spyres. Of course, hydraulic discs leave all the above options in the dust anyhow.

I agree and disagree, BB5's are good enough to bring 200Kg of man to a halt pretty damn sharpish, used them for two years before upgrading to the BB7's which I have also been using two years. Honestly BB7's are very underrated because it takes a little patience and finesse to set them up correctly, tech level no more complicated than a half decent over clock. BB7's with genuine AVID sintered have been flawless for the past two years, still got the same pads in the front and have only just swapped out the rears.

Having said that I have been eyeing up TRP spyres for the past year, the price just keeps falling. The only reason I wanted to try out the spyres is that they are two piston and squeeze the rotor equally from both sides, not like that's a biggie but as the market slowly migrates over from 6-bolt hubs to Centre-lock hubs I noticed that most of the newer Rotors are really solid and do not flex, it seems they are designed for a 2-piston brake calliper which doesn't play nice with the BB7's, it almost cuts the braking power in half as the BB7 piston cannot push/flex the new stiffer rotors and therefore its harder to get both pads engaged. The stock AVID Clean-sweep rotors flex so the single piston is able to force the rotor against the second pad.

I have never used hydraulic disk brakes so reserve judgement, at this point I don't understand why people are always saying hydro is the way, something to do with the way the pads *auto* adjust so you don't have to fiddle with them much once they are set up? . . . I'm a little bit scared of the horror stories I've read about the brake fluid leaking/drying up from cracked ceramic pistons which results in severe break fade and a big accidents? . . . I'm speculating of course and being open minded I guess I will have to evaluate hydro brakes myself, your recommendation has been duly noted!

 

[Big.Wayne]

Yes.

Oh wait a sec, that's for rim brakes? . . . anything else similar to this which is a disk specific rim?

 

[Big.Wayne]

Those rims can can be used for rim or disc brakes.

Thank you scotty, I do realise that but they are not designed specifically for disk brakes. Not that it's a huge deal but I suspect a disk-specific rim has some engineering adjustments/advantages, for instance that aero curve could begin straight away instead of remaining flat for the rim brakes to squarely interface with, if there are curves at the top for some reason I guess it would be slightly better if the curve travelled all the way down to the tyre?

 

[Big.Wayne]

I have had spokes break before, it's very uncommon for me though.

Judging by that photo it looks like you have a hovercraft tyre and very strong 2mm plain gauge spokes, with tyres that wide and running at low PSI it would be almost impossible for you to break a spoke, those tyres absorb most of the shocks, it literally is a hovercraft!

For me I have 28c tyres running at 125 psi on tarmac, I currently weigh 270lbs . . . if I hit a bad flaw in the road thats a lot of force attacking the metal in my wheel . . . Seems we have very different scenarios.

It's not too difficult to adjust the tension on the other spokes to get it straight enough to ride on

I'm not sure about that, what cycle are we talking about, what kind of geometry?. Again looking at your photo that's almost a balloon bike so the chain stays will be so far apart to accommodate the wide tyres that even a broken spoke won't throw out the wheel enough to clash with the chain stay.

Have you got a road cycle that is designed to run mainly 23c/25c/28c tyres max, the geometry is so tight that losing a single spoke (32x3) is enough to literally weld the tyre against the chain stay, I couldn't adjust the remaining 31 spokes to make it ridable, I don't know maybe I'm not that good mechanic or maybe your basing your opinion on a cycle frame that gives a very generous wheel clearance?

I guess I'm ok now as my new fatter wheel is coping well, staying in true etc, the previous wheel threw up some warning signs before the spokes started snapping.

I also have a lot of experience of being self-sufficient miles away from the nearest road and without phone signal. For me, there's no way I could carry spares and tools for every possible component that could break. I take zip ties, tape, inner tubes, multi tool and a knife. That can fix pretty much anything.

Here's an off-topic story from my weekend ride:

that looks fun, you really are in a different cycling planet to me, looks like a photo from the Mars roover! . . . Do you mainly cycle on other planets or do you burn up the tarmac also? . . .

 

[Big.Wayne]

Wow that photo is out of this world, I'd love to spend the day cycling around there.

please post up some more info on your wheels please, the different types and why you chose them. I've almost got tunnel vision when I think of a cycle, always roads, disk brakes. I'm interested to discuss ways to improve a wheel that will allow you either too 1) travel faster across short timed runs (i.e loop of richmond park) or travel further distance with less fatigue.

I'm aware that personal fitness, weight, training etc play a big part but regarding this thread I'm mainly interested in taking the wheel and trying to work out the barriers.

I'm sure the big wheel manufacturers with their big R&D budgets are working on the same problems but I would prefere to push on myself and with anyone else who is interested.

We could wait to be spoon fed the next portion of technology by the big players or we could look at the scenarios and identify the issues and workarounds ourselves.

Have you looked into it much touch? like have you studied the ideas and science behind the wheel, for instance do you have any idea if there is an advantage to a lighter wheel over a heavier wheel, I don't know myself but there are a lot of weight weenies around so I get the impression lighter is better but I don't know the reason why?

Isn't weight an advantage in a wheel?

 

[Big.Wayne]

the big wheel manufacturers are making the components that you're handbuilding together anyway....

Sorry Saytan, I don't follow?

Do you mean MAVIC are using Shimano hardware, or HOPE are using ZIPP hardware?

Personally I know the stock offerings don't meet my requirements, I'd have as much chance of buying a prebuilt computer that floats my boat as I would buying a factory wheel that floats my boat. I'm sure I'm not the only individual/fussy customer that would like more control of the sum of the parts?

 

[Big.Wayne]

Lighter wheels are useful for climbing hills as the less weight you have to battle gravity going up hill, the less effort/energy you need to expend to maintain a certain speed

Ok I knew that and that makes sense if your against the clock or going really far up hills all days but I thought the point of training uphill was to use gravity as a burden to push your fitness levels? Wouldn't it be better for training purposes to ride a behemoth uphill? . . . months of training like that and you would be Conan, then when you got on your race bike and cycled on a flat you would be leaving your buddies in the dust?

a lighter wheel will aid in rapid changes in speed as a rotating mass stores energy hence the flywheel in your car. So if you are racing a course with lots of turns and bursts of hard acceleration efforts the lighter wheel would be beneficial

I don't have a car and I'm not sure what a flywheel is but I think I follow, you mean going 0-25MPH will be easier on lighter wheels and harder on heavier wheels? . . . I'm not sure of a situation that would be useful apart from tearing off from the traffic lights.

Rotating mass sounds interesting although isn't that more to do with a heavier wheel or is there some other weird science that comes into play?

Conversely a heavier wheel will be harder to accelerate quickly but once up to speed, will be easier to hold that speed on the flats and of course going down hill the extra weight will aid you

Yeah I believe this is true not because I understand the physics but because I am a beast. I mentioned above everyone including pensioners overtakes me on the climbs but going downhill is a different matter. I stop peddling and sit there overtaking everyone, even the weight weener in his aero tuck. You never really hear about fatties being dangerous down hill, I might have to enter a few competitions that are pure downhill . . . I've yet to top 40MPH but 37MPH felt like borderline insanity!

I agree about holding the speed on the flats, I think of myself as a juggernaught, lots of energy to gain momentum but once up to 20-25Mph crusing speed its very easy to maintain . . . I wonder if the difference would be noticable? if thats true it would mean a skinny rider on a light carbon cycle finds it harder to maintain a cruising speed compared to blubberboy on his steel steed? Is this to do with the wheel weight and rotating mass?

Is rotating mass effected only by wheel weight or does the overall cycle/rider weight affect it as well?

Personally I'm a fat **** so I use an aero wheel as any weight on my wheels are dwarfed by my waistline but I am working on it

Don't worry about it mate, I've gone from 200lbs to 270lbs in two years, thats something like 19.5 stone. Apart from destroying a couple of rear wheels and not looking quite as sexy in me bibs I can't say its made a big difference, although I can't bring myself to do any time trials in this current state!

The extra blubber does lend itself quite well to long distance, you just have to balance your output to the right levels and your like an endurance battery