When a Console is better than your PC...

Phemo · 19 Jun 2017 at 13:49

Really don't want to get into any kind of PC vs console argument but you only have to look at even the current consoles to see what devs can do with a single hardware configuration to work with. I can't remember what the rough PC equivalent of the Xbox One's GPU is, but I'm quite certain it could not run a game like Forza Horizon 3 at 1080p/30fps anywhere near as well as the Xbox One can.

We all know the hardware used in the consoles (at least the regular PS4/Xbox One) are technically quite crap, but they can still churn out some decent graphics, made even more impressive by how low-end the hardware technically is.

tyler_jrb · 19 Jun 2017 at 14:01

Phemo said:
Really don't want to get into any kind of PC vs console argument but you only have to look at even the current consoles to see what devs can do with a single hardware configuration to work with. I can't remember what the rough PC equivalent of the Xbox One's GPU is, but I'm quite certain it could not run a game like Forza Horizon 3 at 1080p/30fps anywhere near as well as the Xbox One can.

We all know the hardware used in the consoles (at least the regular PS4/Xbox One) are technically quite crap, but they can still churn out some decent graphics, made even more impressive by how low-end the hardware technically is.

AMD 7850

tyler_jrb · 19 Jun 2017 at 14:15

TonyTurbo78 said:
I'll reply because I've a notification that you replied to me but I'm not going to go to as far with this discussion as far as that machine will go when playing games. Trying to think of the word giving to someone that goes to unrealistic extremes to prove or win an argument/discussion in their favour....cant think now but come on. A 40 quid PSU , a 40 quid motherboard, a 70quid extreme budget cpu??? Your crazy if you think that machine will even do 1080p gaming let alone 4k. It don't work like that and I'm sure your not silly enough to actually believe what you wrote there in tallying up that rig for 600 quid.

I'm not even going to reply with a decent answer.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.pcworld.com/article/3200767/gaming/xbox-one-x-pc-build.amp.html

VincentHanna · 19 Jun 2017 at 14:36

So for nearly twice the cost, they nearly made an equivalent spec PC....

tyler_jrb · 19 Jun 2017 at 14:48

VincentHanna said:
So for nearly twice the cost, they nearly made an equivalent spec PC....

im pretty sure $650 isn't nearly $1000.

It's actually better spec too...

LegendaryDread · 19 Jun 2017 at 14:55

tyler_jrb said:
im pretty sure $650 isn't nearly $1000.

It's actually better spec too...

Yep... According to Digital Foundry the XboneX's harddrive reads at 60MB/s. There's no way it's still using SATA2, so it can only mean the drive is 5400rpm.
The Western Digital that PCW chose would likely run at ~100MB/s.
They could've chosen a lower spec CPU and still beat Jaguar, too.

VincentHanna · 19 Jun 2017 at 15:08

tyler_jrb said:
im pretty sure $650 isn't nearly $1000.

It's actually better spec too...

From the same article:
$650 build summary

As mentioned above, we wanted to replicate both the functionality and the price of the Xbox One X as closely as possible. You can’t do an exact 1:1 duplicate, thanks to a mix of Microsoft’s custom hardware design and slow release of specs, but this build is a fairly decent compromise between Xbox One X’s main features and the cost of PC components. This rig should play games in 4K at a minimum of 30 fps on a Medium graphics setting, support HDR, and play optical discs.

However, it’s more expensive than an Xbox One X by $152 (or more, if you’re bad about filing mail-in rebates). It lacks support for 4K UHD Blu-Ray discs. It uses a GPU that’s extremely difficult to find right now, so currently you’d have to pay more for a used RX 580 or buy a graphics card with less memory (Nvidia’s 6GB GTX 1060 instead of a 8GB Radeon RX 580). It doesn’t have built-in Wi-Fi support. And it’s not nearly as compact or small.

$944 Build breakdown

For the most part, this build shares the same approach as our first one. The key difference is the addition of Pioneer’s 4K UHD Blu-Ray drive to closely match what the Xbox One X has.

That 4K UHD Blu-Ray drive makes this build quite a bit more expensive than an Xbox One X. The BDR-211UBK itself is $130, and its highly restrictive system requirements also require a more expensive CPU and motherboard. The cheapest compatible processor is a $187 Kaby Lake Core i5-7400, and since only a few motherboards support the draconian DRM specifications for 4K UHD Blu-ray disc playback, the lowest-cost option is $149.

It’s also much more expensive than the Xbox One X. At $944, you could buy the Xbox One X almost twice over.

Final thoughts

For the moment, Microsoft’s created a machine that the DIY PC crowd can’t currently match—not when you try to copy both its feature set and cost at the same time, at least. The 4K UHD Blu-Ray disc drive really throws a wrench into this build challenge, and even without it, the Xbox One X holds its own. This situation might be a first, given how often PC gamers tout benefits that console fans miss out on.

You can't just discount a UHD Drive because PC gamers have Steam/Origin etc, it's part of the XBox One X specification.

V F · 19 Jun 2017 at 15:20

Any serious gamer on console or PC wouldn't care about Wi-Fi?

tyler_jrb · 19 Jun 2017 at 15:33

VincentHanna said:
From the same article:
$650 build summary

$944 Build breakdown

Final thoughts

You can't just discount a UHD Drive because PC gamers have Steam/Origin etc, it's part of the XBox One X specification.

That makes no sense. Because a normal UHD 4K blueray player can be had for £70.

I don't see why someone would spend £300 more on unnecessary parts just to accommodate an internal one.

I do agree an rx580 is hard to find sadly yes. However VEGA's release is next month. Likely to get something for a similar/lesser price point with the same/more performance. Still before the release of the XB1X.

VincentHanna · 19 Jun 2017 at 16:01

tyler_jrb said:
Because a normal UHD 4K blueray player can be had for £70.

Where? Cheapest 4k UHD blu-ray player is Xbox One S AFAIK

TonyTurbo78 · 19 Jun 2017 at 16:17

tyler_jrb said:
I'm not even going to reply with a decent answer.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.pcworld.com/article/3200767/gaming/xbox-one-x-pc-build.amp.html

So you post to an American site priced in US dollars, also a site that puts together a similar build and I quote "This rig SHOULD play games in 4K at a minimum of 30 fps on a Medium graphics setting" with no performance charts, game tests etc. You're crazier than I thought to believe that a $600 machine could play 4k at 30fps. Like I said, 4k Pacman yes, 4K BF1 or any modern visually intensive game hell not a chance of anything more than a slide show.

You've seen the hundreds of PC's on here with various mid to high range GPU's paired with I7's that can' t game on 4k enjoyably right?

tyler_jrb · 19 Jun 2017 at 16:23

TonyTurbo78 said:
So you post to an American site priced in US dollars, also a site that puts together a similar build and I quote "This rig SHOULD play games in 4K at a minimum of 30 fps on a Medium graphics setting" with no performance charts, game tests etc. You're crazier than I thought to believe that a $600 machine could play 4k at 30fps. Like I said, 4k Pacman yes, 4K BF1 or any modern visually intensive game hell not a chance of anything more than a slide show.

You've seen the hundreds of PC's on here with various mid to high range GPU's paired with I7's that can' t game on 4k enjoyably right?

So you slap a crap cpu and mid range gpu into a console chassis and suddenly it can? The x one x will run 4k yeah but it wont be running no where near the same frames and settings that a high end pc will be.

VincentHanna said:
Where? Cheapest 4k UHD blu-ray player is Xbox One S AFAIK

Agreed, although the one S's blue ray player isn't as good as one of the £350 stand alone units. Although yeah it's not that far behind either.

Thought you lot didn't mind 4k upscaled anyway if were going down that road?

V F · 19 Jun 2017 at 17:00

What good is 4k when you see so much compression in a lot of games. Poor banding in quite a number. Some very little.

V F · 20 Jun 2017 at 03:44

I really need to get DOOM for the PC. So yummy yet so fun even for a console.

Chuk_Chuk · 20 Jun 2017 at 06:58

V F said:
Any serious gamer on console or PC wouldn't care about Wi-Fi?

Sometime you don't have a choice.

Curlyriff · 20 Jun 2017 at 13:27

tyler_jrb said:
8gb RX 580 (£235), micro atx board (£40), case (£35), Intel g3258 (£70), 8GB RAM(£50), 500w PSU(£40) and 1TB HDD(£40).

That leaves plenty for OS(£10), blue ray drive and extras.

How good will it be? As fast as the Xbox one X, essentially the exact same chip (6.2tflops)

As long as you wanted it to last. You will just have to reduce settings, like the XB1X will be doing for new titles in 1-2 years.

Sorry but what? Your at £510 there. Add OS is £95 ish, internal UHD 4K Blu-Ray drive is around £150, Xbox one controller £48 (or mouse/keyboard of equivalent)

Great you can find the OS for £10 but that's not retail joe public will get it at.

As you can see Blu-Ray drives for pc for UHD content are limited. But overall that's pretty much £800 there.

That's almost two Xbox one x you can pick up.

Edit: and you state you can get a UHD 4K blue ray player for £70 instead of internal? Where are they found and really the point is one box that does it all not separate hardware that needs hooking up.

Freddie1980 · 20 Jun 2017 at 13:37

tyler_jrb said:
I do agree an rx580 is hard to find sadly yes. However VEGA's release is next month. Likely to get something for a similar/lesser price point with the same/more performance. Still before the release of the XB1X.

An RX580 is still going to weaker then what you getting the XB1X not to mention games will be practically coded almost to the metal it's SoC to get the most out of the hardware whereas PC users have to put up with bloated API's and often poorly optimised software titles.

tyler_jrb · 20 Jun 2017 at 14:19

Freddie1980 said:
An RX580 is still going to weaker then what you getting the XB1X not to mention games will be practically coded almost to the metal it's SoC to get the most out of the hardware whereas PC users have to put up with bloated API's and often poorly optimised software titles.

The question is how much are devs going to get out of a current gen almost identicle gpu on console? Considering they will be coding for the exact same Architecture on PC.

tyler_jrb · 20 Jun 2017 at 14:36

Curlyriff said:
Sorry but what? Your at £510 there. Add OS is £95 ish, internal UHD 4K Blu-Ray drive is around £150, Xbox one controller £48 (or mouse/keyboard of equivalent)

Great you can find the OS for £10 but that's not retail joe public will get it at.

As you can see Blu-Ray drives for pc for UHD content are limited. But overall that's pretty much £800 there.

That's almost two Xbox one x you can pick up.

Edit: and you state you can get a UHD 4K blue ray player for £70 instead of internal? Where are they found and really the point is one box that does it all not separate hardware that needs hooking up.

Retail windows 10 home key for £10. Have used quite a few in the past with no issues.

Sure it has a blue ray player inbuilt. Can't get an inbuilt one to fit that price range I agree with that.

I could mention an extra cost of around £10-15 per game vs PC games, cost for membership. If you wanted to use mouse aim you will need a £100 adapter. but I left those out...

Freddie1980 · 20 Jun 2017 at 15:01

tyler_jrb said:
The question is how much are devs going to get out of a current gen almost identicle gpu on console? Considering they will be coding for the exact same Architecture on PC.

It comes down to the software and how developers write code for it on the consoles AMD hardware works just fine as developers know that in order to avoid a CPU bottleneck the code going to the GPU needs to be written in such a way that draw calls are split over multiple CPU threads which more often then not just doesn't happen on AMD hardware on the PC. XBX1 also has a custom GPU that is built around DX12 from the ground up, it remains to be seen just how much benefit this brings but early signs look good.