I do find it pretty strange how so many EV manufacturers have this heat pump dilemma now, when Nissan his this tech pretty much nailed in their 2013 Leaf revision. Surely if you were new to EV production you'd learn from the early EV manufacturers mistakes.
EV general discussion
- Thread starter Ricochet J
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That makes no sense. A bigger car also needs more heating. The ID buzz has a lot of glass to lose heat and a massive cabin to heat for example.
He said the bigger the battery, not the bigger the car. While they're reasonably correlated, there are differences.
Soldato
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Battery requires heat too, same difference. Heat flux management is the new science for EVs. Especially pushing for higher 5 cycle EPA ratings.
Still makes no sense. X kw motor draw and y kw heating. Doesn’t matter how big the battery is for this…
The heatpump difference has almost always been exaggerated and not just in the UK. I see claims of up to 30% more efficient, but then people go away go away believing a 150 mile EV will give 200 miles. They don't realise the heatpump is only one aspect of the overall efficiency so that 30% more efficient heatpump givse ~5% extra overall efficiency improvement in winter (10% if it is -15c or so).
The reality is with a heatpump you get ~5% in the milder UK winters and that's only assuming you go on a long trip where the numbers show anything more than margin of error. The rest of us will simply see the winter GoM say 190 miles instead of 200.
- If the EV happens to have one as standard, or you are buying used and it's in the car you buy, then great.
- If 10 - 15 miles of extra range is enough to make a difference because you do lots of long journeys, then by all means a heatpump is viable.
- If you do nothing but short commutes and medium journey within your EV range, then a heatpump is a waste of money.
Sadly the temperature on that day was not condusive to really seeing the difference.
Our ID.3 (so aside from minor tweaks, the same platform as the ID.7) would only really start significantly heating the battery below 10C, and by 0C it used a lot of power for battery heating, it was very noticeable over winter when the temps where 0-5C. so doing it at 10C, it's really only going to show the difference between PTC and heatpump for cabin heating.
It was quite misleading to have included this, they should have done it actually over winter, not end of Feb.. they eluded to the temperature a couple of times, but misleading qualified things with saying we don't have -10 to -20C winters.. which again is not the temperature battery heating will significantly kick in on MEB platform cars.
couple of german videos on the id7 motor improvements - impressive amount of detail I've never seen in uk reviewers
[like the Model3 3 upgrades impacting value of old model, new vw motor in id3 will de-value older model]
sequel https://youtu.be/RMjcekoMZso?t=513
vs i5 https://youtu.be/3rg_n63fv3M?t=2404
[like the Model3 3 upgrades impacting value of old model, new vw motor in id3 will de-value older model]
vs i5 https://youtu.be/3rg_n63fv3M?t=2404
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i just watched this ..... i guess it is no wonder toyota rubbish EVs............ Maybe no one thought to tell them was its not that EVs are over priced and rubbish......... just that THEIR EVs are over priced and rubbish
(seriously a damn shame as those lexuses (Lexi?) esp the expensive one look really nice, but under 160 mile bad weather range for an over 70k car? jesus wept. (and yes i accept my car would not have been high up on their list either - though much higher than that, probably 210 miles or so) but my car is a 2018 design which is close to end of life (in terms of new sales)
I think they should have made more about the heatpump and the uk.... yes for England they are probably right, the extra expense does mean its probably not worth it, but in countries with much harsher weather - maybe even Scotland i think the difference would have been greater.
yes they mentioned it but i still think they glossed over it a bit. right tool for the right job and all that.
over all a useful vid however and good background fodder whilst working
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I own a Rav4 hybrid and I have been happy with it for the last 18 months. However, I took a new Tesla M3 out for a test drive today and I really liked it. Its the first full EV I have driven and I enjoyed it far more than I expected. The driving experience was very good, the build quality was solid and in my opinion on par with the BMW's I have owned.
However, the Model Y would be my preference and new is out of my budget (a new Model 3 is at the maximum end of my budget but I need the MY space)
My question, that for obvious reasons the salesperson skirted around was... If I bought a 2022 Model Y from a different dealer (non Tesla) are there any consequences of that regarding Tesla's 4 year warranty? As the Tesla does not need a full service to ensure the warranty remains valid I thought if anything went wrong despite not buying from a Tesla dealer Tesla would still need to sort it out?
Any thoughts?
However, the Model Y would be my preference and new is out of my budget (a new Model 3 is at the maximum end of my budget but I need the MY space)
My question, that for obvious reasons the salesperson skirted around was... If I bought a 2022 Model Y from a different dealer (non Tesla) are there any consequences of that regarding Tesla's 4 year warranty? As the Tesla does not need a full service to ensure the warranty remains valid I thought if anything went wrong despite not buying from a Tesla dealer Tesla would still need to sort it out?
Any thoughts?
No consequences that I'm aware of. Service items would just be dealt with at a Tesla Service Centre should the need arise under warranty. The warranty is on the car and drivetrain, not an owner.
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How many miles on it? You're comparing a brand new Tesla to how a used one might be. The new one hasn't had time for those American parts to start falling off yet
. Joking aside, the latest M3 is supposed to be built very well.Personally I wouldn't touch a used Tesla or probably any EV unless can verify it's history, how charged etc. If 20k miles on it for example and it's been mostly supercharged then it will have battery degradation. The 8 year battery warranty doesn't necessarily mean you'll get a brand new battery pack either if it were to fail later.
How come it's being sold by a non-Tesla dealer?
I'd rather try to afford new or try to find a one owner car for sale privately where you can interrogate the owner a bit. Or at least from Tesla themselves
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Model Y Long Range Nissan dealer 2022 with 26,000 miles on it. You raise some fair points too.How many miles on it? You're comparing a brand new Tesla to how a used one might be. The new one hasn't had time for those American parts to start falling off yet
Personally I wouldn't touch a used Tesla or probably any EV unless can verify it's history, how charged etc. If 20k miles on it for example and it's been mostly supercharged then it will have battery degradation. The 8 year battery warranty doesn't necessarily mean you'll get a brand new battery pack either if it were to fail later.
How come it's being sold by a non-Tesla dealer?
I'd rather try to afford new or try to find a one owner car for sale privately where you can interrogate the owner a bit. Or at least from Tesla themselves
Really?
When you've got 89kwh of useable power in a battery , it doesn't make much difference if you use 3kwh heating a car up (the initial warm up being the energy biggest hit)
When you've got 17kwh of useable power, it makes a big difference if you use 3kwh on heat.
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Those cars would be listed as an insurance write off in their history if they still do this.
This. Their sales MO is to sell new cars, they don’t even push used sales from their own centres.
Nearly all used Tesla’s are sold by 3rd party dealers.
Tesla staff know next to nothing about their used inventory and they’ll certainly not know how it’s been charged. They are no different to any other dealer in that regard. Most of it you’ll buy blind off the internet.
It will probably be fine, the easiest way to check the general health of the battery is check how many miles it thinks it has left and gross it up to 100% or better get them to charge it to 100%.
That’s about as good as it gets without plugging in dealer level diagnostic tools or running a 24 hour battery test in the service menu, neither are realistic options for you.
Just one thing to watch out on those 2022 model Ys is the suspension is firmer than a new 2023 model and a new Model 3.
Any reason why you’d want the Y over the 3?
I’ve owned both and other than the bigger boot and an extra inch of leg room and rear seat height, there’s not much in it. The range of the standard Model 3 is only about 30 miles less than the Model Y long range.
To add to the above, have you checked the finance rates on new?
Model y is 1.8%, model 3 is a lot higher. If you are financing, you can get in a Y for less than a 3 currently.