If people cared about sustainability they wouldn’t have kids or go on holiday on planes. No ones buying an Ev for their carbon footprint. They are doing it for cost of ownership
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When are you going fully electric?
- Thread starter Ricochet J
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Associate
For me sustainability is about finding ways to do what we want to do whilst minimising our impact.
We still need to travel, but EVs allow us to travel with 1/10th the carbon impact of combustion cars.
The solution to sustainability is decarbonising stuff, not stopping doing stuff.
In my household we have 2 EVs for a combination of sustainability, the improved ownership experience, and cost.
I would still have EVs if they cost more than combustion cars.
Soldato
There's been some lively debate tonight with both the ICE camps and BEV camps both making good points, and some not so good ones.
I'm leaning towards a used PHEV as a bridging car
Buy what is right for you, but like any large purchase do your research, and don't write things off just because. I suggest you spend some time looking at the data, and then actually doing some test drives, as I said before grab a long term full weekend test drive in a BEV, do a long journey, use a rapid charger, use an app, check the infrastructure in places you may regularly go. Look at the pitfalls as well, including the PHEV, smaller boot, but maybe a vast majority of trips done on electric, as long as you an charge regularly, where with BEV it would be less frequent.
So many things to consider, and gather data on, anecdotes are great but nothing beats real life experiences and actual data you've gathered yourself.
Soldato
The new crop of PHEVs are pretty usable in terms of EV range. My old 330e was a cracking car, but the range was 25 at best. The facelift, and like most new PHEVs, has a range of 50-60 miles. Many of them have a 20kwh battery with 50kw DC charging. And if it’s a company car, the BIK is 5%.
For me, as long as someone else is paying for my cars, I’m EV all the way. For day to day driving they make a fair bit of sense. Hopefully the money I save on petrol means I can buy a track car in 6 months time.
For me, as long as someone else is paying for my cars, I’m EV all the way. For day to day driving they make a fair bit of sense. Hopefully the money I save on petrol means I can buy a track car in 6 months time.
Soldato
Well the thread title does ask when people are going electric, and I guess if the answer is not if I can help it they are welcome to say why.
You hit the nail on the head with the stepping stone.
My OH does not like autos (I know BEVs don't change gear)
She works three miles away.
The in-laws are 21 miles away.
A used PHEV will enable her to get used to not having a clutch.
She can charge at home for her commute.
If the small battery isn't enough for a return trip to the in-laws, the petrol engine will kick in, so no range anxiety.
I reckon a couple of years in a PHEV and she'll be raring to go BEV.
In the meantime, I'll keep ragging my MX5 and maybe some affordable lightweight two seater BEV convertibles will become available.
Exactly, the idea people are buying a new EV on PCP every three years or so because it’s more sustainable is nonsense. These cars have a massive footprint to manufacture.
Blun works in carbon lifecycle analysis. Maybe he did popeye cartoons too
What does make me laugh are the ev evangelicals who would never buy a new Ev but sing the merits of second hand ones. Like OEMs are building cars to be sold to second hand buyers. Reality check. OEMs sell brand new cars to those who see the reason to buy new…
Literally relying on people to lose loads of money so they can get a bargain. Must have missed economics at school
This residuals is what exactly is slowing sales as lease companies are passing on the poor residuals to the new buyers. This then means monthlies are higher and petrol or hybrid becoming more competitive.
But of course poor residuals are due to the daily mail.
What does make me laugh are the ev evangelicals who would never buy a new Ev but sing the merits of second hand ones. Like OEMs are building cars to be sold to second hand buyers. Reality check. OEMs sell brand new cars to those who see the reason to buy new…
Literally relying on people to lose loads of money so they can get a bargain. Must have missed economics at school
This residuals is what exactly is slowing sales as lease companies are passing on the poor residuals to the new buyers. This then means monthlies are higher and petrol or hybrid becoming more competitive.
But of course poor residuals are due to the daily mail.
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Soldato
These people can't have had many cycles doing that then, seems like another nonsense comment to me. They don't get scrapped when you buy a new car, what a moronic comment.
Associate
Yep exactly this- you don’t lease a car for 3 years then send it to the crusher - it becomes part of the used market.
There’s people that buy new
People that buy a few months old / pre-reg
People that buy 2/3yrs old
People that buy 5+ years old
People that buy 10+ years old
As the newer cars filter through the oldest ones leave.
It’s how it’s always worked.
Admittedly with EVs lasting longer there’s an argument that, long term, people should keep them longer. At the moment it’s all just great supply for the used market which is needed to make EVs price accessible for as many people as possible.
As just said. Used market relies on people losing loads buying new. People are tired of that now so looking at other options. Hence the EV market has stalled in Europe.
Associate
This is another tabloid headline. The EV market has slowed in Germany as expected because they’ve just removed subsidies.
The market is still growing, but will obviously grow at a slower rate once subsidies are removed.
It’s been the case since the beginning of cars that you lose lots of money buying new, but if nobody does it there’s no used cars. I once said I’d never buy new then here we are and I’m happy to take the hit, and happy that someone in the future will get a well looked after used EV for much less ££.
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Product shouldn’t need subsidies to be pushed. The market should want the product.
1 sold car is a growing market. I don’t read headlines. I see industry data
Wheres your 1/10th impact data then ?
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To your edit. You said you bought second hand? As they are bargains ?
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It’s not moronic at all. It’s ridiculous to convince yourself you are somehow contributing to a more greener environment if you are leasing a new EV every three years when it has 1.3-2x more carbon footprint to manufacture than an ICE does. If you were going to keep the EV for its lifecycle? Sure that’s another thing all together. But the entire market is setup to get people in to new cars every few years, and if you are doing that with an EV it’s having a much bigger impact from a manufacturing perspective than an ICE does.
Hence why I said previously, I think EV’s are great in lots of scenarios they have many technical merits. But I’m really not convinced about the sustainability argument.
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The environmental impact extends long after a vehicle has been made and sold and resold many times. Why would have to remain with the original owner?
Not entirely sure why you think manufacturing an ice or EV is the only carbon footprint it has.
When did people stop buying new and or used cars.
They pushed to get people to switch to diesel then back to petrol. How did you think that happened. People just woke up one day and suddenly decided to change fuel type.
Why bother, why not just have a manual ICE car.