When are you going fully electric?

ICDP said:
What part of the winking emoji did you miss?

Sorry I don’t mean to be confrontational and I know public rapid charging an EV costs as much as fossil fuel. But using worst case EV costs as a metric to make ICE seem good, well it’s a bit desperate to be honest. Its the kind of FUD you see in the Daily Heil, or one of those desperate clickbait “petrolhead” YouTube channels.
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It’s worse than that - I did some fag packet calculations and came up with a figure of 50p per kWh as the equivalent cost of what my diesel E Class cost to run. My 7p home rate makes it ridiculously cheaper, but public charging at 80p is just horrific and is one thing that needs to change to make it more attractive to those who can’t have a charger fitted at home.

Very rarely do I need to use it, but when I do it’s a niche case and I’m happy with the thousands I’ve saved on 99% of my charging.
 
Penfold101 said:
It’s worse than that - I did some fag packet calculations and came up with a figure of 50p per kWh as the equivalent cost of what my diesel E Class cost to run. My 7p home rate makes it ridiculously cheaper, but public charging at 80p is just horrific and is one thing that needs to change to make it more attractive to those who can’t have a charger fitted at home.

Very rarely do I need to use it, but when I do it’s a niche case and I’m happy with the thousands I’ve saved on 99% of my charging.
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Thats where i dont mind the high cost of public charging aswell, you save so much during the year that the summer trip that will need a couple of charges @ 50p-80p/unit charging costs are pretty inconsequential. But if you dont do the bulk of charging at home, then its no cheaper than fuelling an ICE, and in some cases its dearer.
 
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SexyGreyFox said:
If users are going to be pushed to EV then I feel sorry for the millions who can't charge at 7p/Kw.
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Not happening anytime soon only about 4% of the 34 million cars on road in the UK are fully electric. 80% of new car sales are ICE.

Its a hysterical to be doom casting being unable to buy a ICE. Never mind people without home charging..
 
It was very cold this morning (7F or -14C) and I think this is the worst efficiency I've seen so far. Energy used for pre-heating isn't included in the average either, I used 37kWh to do 32 miles today if you include that :eek:

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OspreyO said:
Not happening anytime soon only about 4% of the 34 million cars on road in the UK are fully electric. 80% of new car sales are ICE.

Its a hysterical to be doom casting being unable to buy a ICE. Never mind people without home charging..
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That’s why hybrids exist and why the ICE ban allows hybrids until 2035. The successive UK Tory Governments were terrible at encouraging the move away from ICE. Labour are barely better but at least making some moves towards green energy.

There is absolutely no technological reason why every car owner in the UK should not have access to cheap home or work charging by now.

Also 7p per kWh is not needed to make EVs cheap. My tariff here in N. Ireland is about 15.5p per kWh and still considerably cheaper to run an inefficient I-Pace compared to fossil fuels. It’s about £1400 cheaper to run my lease I-Pace at 10k PA miles (no tax and less servicing) . A more efficient typical EV would be about £1600 cheaper to run than a typical 45mpg ICE.

My wife and I do ~18k - 20k per year in two BEVs and are saving about £2500 + per year on fuel, tax and servicing costs. Those savings essentially pay ALL our electricity for a year and that includes charging the two EVs.

The fact you can now pick up used EVs for similar prices to ICE means there is no need for cash incentives anymore.

The only reason someone with access to off street parking and with a £10k + car budget would pick ICE for typical use cases… would be because they do so few miles, are ignorant, or an idiot.

Had a colleague who I went over the sums with on ICE vs EV and she was absolutely astounded that an EV would save her so much in fuel and servicing costs. She said she typically spends about £140 per month on petrol currently. She lives very rural and has access to off street parking and does about 10,000 miles PA in mostly short commute journeys. I showed her that a good efficient EV would save her about £1300 - £1400 PA in fuel alone. Her budget was £20000 and I showed her the vast numbers of nearly new and up to 1.5 year old EVs (MG4, ID.3, KIA, Hyundai) that would give 4 - 4.5 miles/kWh avg, with two yearly service cycles. Some even had free home chargers included.

She went and used all that budget on a nearly new petrol Dacia Duster the very next day. Her incentive was they let her drive it home then and there. On her typical stop start commutes she will be lucky to get 35mpg on average. Now I don’t give a crap as it’s her money and her choice. But yeah, still a total idiotic choice because she can’t claim ignorance.

Edit: Just checked my pod point app and our total kWh added this year was 7640 for two EVs doing around 18k - 20k miles at a cost of just over £1000. That includes charging losses.
 
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ICDP said:
The only reason someone with access to off street parking and with a £10k + car budget would pick ICE for typical use cases… would be because they do so few miles, are ignorant, or an idiot.
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Problem is even people who have a very close to typical use case often have requirements which can make EVs a no go or very less convenient. For example 95% of the usage of my diesel Qashqai would be perfect, probably as perfect as it gets, EV territory but that last 5% is a complete show stopper as things stand - similarly why I own a pickup despite 90-95% of the time there are arguably better vehicles for its use but that 5-10% of the time there is no substitute for it or something very similar.

There is also the factor where while someone might have access to off-street parking for an EV now that might not be the case in the future which can make for a difficult situation - someone who might seem like a perfect candidate for an EV might be taking things like that into consideration.
 
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Not in the case I outlined and I did caveat “typical use cases”. Needing a pickup does not remotely equate to “typical”.
 
ICDP said:
....That’s why hybrids exist and why the ICE ban allows hybrids until 2035. The successive UK Tory Governments were terrible at encouraging the move away from ICE. Labour are barely better but at least making some moves towards green energy.

There is absolutely no technological reason why every car owner in the UK should not have access to cheap home or work charging by now.

.....
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That's a very rose tinted glasses view.

It's not cheaper for those who cannot home charge. Depreciation will have wiped out any savings for many, and the EV market is not stable yet either. The reality is there no disincentive to buying a non hybrid petrol for those that don't want to. Supply chain issues, poor warranty support, and poor software, quality issues by manufacturers are also disincentives.

If you think the UK govt is bad, In Rep Ireland, diesel sales are increasing and EV sales decreasing, with coverage black spots for public charging in many parts of the country.

That said I love my EV. I get it. But as a two car household that does low mileage and primarily urban driving and primarily home charging. An EV is my preferred choice of car. But I think I would struggle to justify (financially) replacing my second car an ICE with a second EV. The resale wipes out all of savings.

That obviously varies depends on how cheap you buy the EV and how much savings you make on fuel.
 
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That’s why I said if you have home or work charging. The lack of government planning to introduce on street charging for the rest of car owners has been a problem.
 
ICDP said:
Not in the case I outlined and I did caveat “typical use cases”. Needing a pickup does not remotely equate to “typical”.
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The pickup was just an aside in the context of edge cases sometimes dictating the overall situation.

But IMO in the real world there are a lot of people who might be close to a typical situation but have a relatively small requirement which makes the whole EV situation more complicated than it seems.
 
OspreyO said:
If you think the UK govt is bad, In Rep Ireland, diesel sales are increasing and EV sales decreasing, with coverage black spots for public charging in many parts of the country.
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Not Ireland but I've had the dealer ask recently about buying back my diesel Qashqai due to seeing a resurgence in demand for diesel vehicles like this. Not sure if related why they seem to be selling the Leafs relatively cheap.
 
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