Fixing an engine on a 15 year old car isn't usually expensive though, parts are cheap and all over the place. Try fixing a 15 year old hybrid system or even finding someone to do it
When are you going fully electric?
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Fixing an engine on a 15 year old car isn't usually expensive though, parts are cheap and all over the place. Try fixing a 15 year old hybrid system or even finding someone to do it
Soldato
Your using bad examples though.
I test drove the FR leon when looking at new cars 18 months ago, I get to drive the 330E at work regularly.
The 330E makes the leon look like the leon does in comparison to the prius
Unless you aware the 330E is just over 6 secs 0-60, its no slouch
Its probably slightly less chuckable than a lean FR, but generally the 3 series is
The Merc 350E is another step again diff car, these are a world apart from the prius
Soldato
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The wife loves her autos too and, between her cars and doing some work for a mechanic friend, I've driven a fair few different autos... most of them high quality cars well above my salary bracket, too. I hated every one of them...
For me, auto gearboxes are just the starting point of the whole drive feeling disengaged and soulless. BMWs are especially bad for that and all the 'systems' make it feel like you're barely even on a road.
Soldato
Fixing an engine on a 15 year old car isn't usually expensive though, parts are cheap and all over the place. Try fixing a 15 year old hybrid system or even finding someone to do it
Your all confused again, Its irrelevant when your broken down and not going anywhere.
What I posted was that you have redundancy with a hybrid, which neither a pure Ev NOR a pure ICE has.
The whole point in why its difficult to fix a very rare hybrid system is .... its very rare
Its no different to finding someone to fix an old rover auto box, most will run a mile (just ask for quotes), a few specialists will. When things are rare only a few people will fix them because only a few will have the knowledge
In 50 years or so I bet it 1000% easier to find someone to fix an Ev than an ICE, at least reasonably priced and locally
Its simple supply and demand with a hint of whats progression for some people.
There are plenty of cars now that aren't easy to fix, you only have to look at the thread in motors here with the guy with the golf.
Soldato
Whenever my Tesla Model 3 turns up. Despite having a £1k deposit down, still not a clue when they will be available in the UK.
I'm started to become tempted by either hybrid or electric as one of our next cars.
Electric would work for the sort of trips our second car does, but I would be concerned by interior/boot space in something like leaf if we were to have another kid. I reckon I'd struggle to sell an ioniq to the other half on looks alone but maybe the Kona would be doable in a couple of years.
If I was to replace my own car I much prefer the idea of a hybrid designed to boost petrol performance. I'd be really tempted by a gs450h though they'd need to drop a bit in price (current gen) to feel worth going for over their conventionally powered (or hybrid) German rivals at the moment. Feels like Lexus are missing a trick by not producing a more performance orientated hybrid IS to give alternative choice to the Merc or BMW
Electric would work for the sort of trips our second car does, but I would be concerned by interior/boot space in something like leaf if we were to have another kid. I reckon I'd struggle to sell an ioniq to the other half on looks alone but maybe the Kona would be doable in a couple of years.
If I was to replace my own car I much prefer the idea of a hybrid designed to boost petrol performance. I'd be really tempted by a gs450h though they'd need to drop a bit in price (current gen) to feel worth going for over their conventionally powered (or hybrid) German rivals at the moment. Feels like Lexus are missing a trick by not producing a more performance orientated hybrid IS to give alternative choice to the Merc or BMW
Soldato
It may not be everyone but the one pedal driving on most EVs is very relaxing and a boon in slow traffic. You can amuse yourself by trying to judge the regen to perfection and try to not use the brake.
Not for then in an i3 just leave it in comfort (bad naming as you get the maximum performance) and use the foot brake instead of regen.
There's currently a 75% grant on charger installation (up to £500) so a ROLEC install can be £149.00 without cable (some cars come with Type 1/2 cables) or £199.00 with a 10m tethered Type 1/2 (i3 comes with a 3 pin socket charger instead).
Not for then in an i3 just leave it in comfort (bad naming as you get the maximum performance) and use the foot brake instead of regen.
There's currently a 75% grant on charger installation (up to £500) so a ROLEC install can be £149.00 without cable (some cars come with Type 1/2 cables) or £199.00 with a 10m tethered Type 1/2 (i3 comes with a 3 pin socket charger instead).
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I will go full electric once I can get something used like a Kona for a reasonable price, 250+ miles rage and 100kw charging, job done.
I rarely drive more than 100 miles in any direction and my bladder doesn't usually last that long anyway so I will probably gain 20 miles back while I take a quick comfort break.
I don't buy new cars so realistically I am looking at 2-3 years until they start coming off finance in volume.
Like others have said though buildings account for around 47% of emissions, its crazy that new builds are not mandated to have solar and battery set ups, its something that california have just mandated. Sure it will add a few £k to the price but the costs of installing on a new build will be far lower than retrofitting a random house as the owner wants it. Also when you are spending £150k+ whats another £5k especially when it lowers your bills considerably. Dropping gas central heating and moving to heat pumps will be the next step.
I rarely drive more than 100 miles in any direction and my bladder doesn't usually last that long anyway so I will probably gain 20 miles back while I take a quick comfort break.
I don't buy new cars so realistically I am looking at 2-3 years until they start coming off finance in volume.
Like others have said though buildings account for around 47% of emissions, its crazy that new builds are not mandated to have solar and battery set ups, its something that california have just mandated. Sure it will add a few £k to the price but the costs of installing on a new build will be far lower than retrofitting a random house as the owner wants it. Also when you are spending £150k+ whats another £5k especially when it lowers your bills considerably. Dropping gas central heating and moving to heat pumps will be the next step.
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Probably around the same time the big players drop their equally appealing options.
As for swapping in our three car household;
Wife's car - When they become similar cost wise to the equivalent supermini. Her usage pattern world be ideal for electric but her ultra low mileage means there is no case for it from a fuel cost point of view.
My company car - Needs more range and/or better charging network. I'm the only support engineer for our company and therefore I cover the whole of the UK so on rare occasions I can find myself doing a 12 hour day and driving for 9 of those
I don't need to be worrying about where to plug in. That said I can also go weeks on end without leaving our office so a plug in hybrid would be ideal for my regular 23 mile per day commute.Toy car - I'm probably a bit of an odd ball here but offer me a fun to drive 2 seater convertible EV and I'd be all over it as long as I could park it up for half the year without having to worry about trashing the battery. I think I'll be waiting a while for that particular vehicle to appear within my price range though.
When they produce a small SUV/AWD CUV with a 350 mile range (EPA) and a reasonable price (I.e <£40k).
The target moved a bit but that’s realistically the requirement I think now makes sense now we have real world data.
Realistically that probably means 3-5 years.
The target moved a bit but that’s realistically the requirement I think now makes sense now we have real world data.
Realistically that probably means 3-5 years.
Hybrid as in PHEV? That'll be dependant on usage scenarios. If the car is used daily as a commuter mobile then yes, but if the majority of the mileage is longer distance then a PHEV may be a worse option than an ICE - PHEV's usually have a worse fuel economy when using the actual ICE engine due to the extra weight.
Basically it all very much depends on a specific persons usage.
https://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/tesloop-tesla-model-s-90d-covers-400000-miles/
Realistically it's not going to be an issue for the vast majority of car buyers, whether they be first, second or sixth. How many cars do 200k+ miles before being scrapped?
VW are dealing with the charge time with increased voltages. The Porsche Taycan should be able to add 250 miles of range in 15 minutes using the system, which is certainly far more reasonable.
BMW, Daimler, Ford and the Volkswagen Group have started a consortium to install 350kWh chargers in Europe and and VW are also doing a large rollout of thousands of chargers in North America too. Other companies like Eon are also rolling out the same chargers so by 2020 the landscape will look very different. Stop off at a service station after 4 hours, then recharge in 15 as you take a toilet break/line up for a snack. The supercharger advantage Tesla currently has may well actually become a negative if they can't use the 350kWh chargers available to other manufacturers.
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Soldato
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If Tesla made a model S that was sporty I would probably go with that. I'm a bit of a nerd though and I like gadgets.
Soldato
The other side from a bias EV owner
Of the "when it can do 300-500 miles and recharge in 5mins" crowd, how often do you do 500miles without stopping, stop for 5mins, then need to do another 500miles?
I drive to Munich several times a year, c.650 miles each way, and I've done lots of road trips to Italy and Southern Spain etc. And after a 500mile stint I tell you I'm ready for a longer break than 5mins
Just because I'm stupid, and was encouraged by a friend who works at BMW Munich and I had nothing better to do, I drove 650miles to Munich in my i3s, which is battery only with a c.120 mile range. Given that in the petrol I would normally stop for an hour lunch break anyway, the entire journey took me 90minutes longer than usual. I don't think that's crazy bad on what is a 10hour non-stop journey and it was a current gen short range car, in a few years they'll be much better. If I only did this journey once a year the cost savings would be worth the inconvenience on an occasional long trip (having said that - I won't do it again I just wanted to test if it was possible, I'll take a petrol next time as I like cruising at high speed on the autobahn and it was only this efficient as the German charging network is far superior to the UK networks which I think are awful. I wouldn't do a 600mile EV only trip in the UK). Yes I'm sure I'll get lots of replies like "I would want to do that journey non stop at 140mph", which is fine, but these journeys *are* possible already.
As for cost - yes the cars are expensive to buy there's no avoiding that. But you need to look at the total cost of ownership. My i3s costs a fair bit up front but I do 20-25k miles a year. I'm saving £250 a month just on fuel. Then there's servicing, I was servicing my previous car every 12k miles, so approx every 6 months, but my i3 is every 2 years regardless of mileage so 1/4 of the trips to the dealer, more savings there. All they do is change the brake fluid and pollen filter and maybe kick the tyres. Brake pads will cover triple the distance as they're barely used with the electric motor slowing the car down in normal driving. The only thing I've come across which is more expensive is tyres as the i3 is a daft size (20" and 175 front/195 rear wide?!) But overall I'm saving a large amount monthly and that's compared to a 45-50mpg petrol I had previously which wasn't RWD, c.180bhp and 0-60 in 6.7s. I.e. this car is way more fun to drive. I also quite like the handling as the all the weight (the battery) is in the floor of the car and I find one pedal driving very relaxing in traffic. The instant torque delivery is also hugely addictive.
Battery life - can't be compared to mobile phones. A phone is space constrained so they push them as far as they can and 100-0% is a very deep cycle. It's also vulnerable to being left in the sun, kept warm all day etc. The cars have a battery management system which blocks out the extremes of state and charge and keeps them warm/cool when necessary which hugely extends life. If you kept a phone battery in a cool climate and only cycled it 10-90% it would last much longer. The battery in my car also has an 8 year warranty so BMW must have faith in the longevity.
I'd never get an EV if I had to rely on public charging though, not until there are hubs with multiple rapids. They're too unreliable at the moment. 90% of my charging is done at home or work.
Then there's the other benefits like remotely starting the climate control etc. I actually prefer this in summer to winter, loved getting into a cold car in the recent heat wave.
Anyway, that's probably enough. Flame away
Of the "when it can do 300-500 miles and recharge in 5mins" crowd, how often do you do 500miles without stopping, stop for 5mins, then need to do another 500miles?
I drive to Munich several times a year, c.650 miles each way, and I've done lots of road trips to Italy and Southern Spain etc. And after a 500mile stint I tell you I'm ready for a longer break than 5mins
Just because I'm stupid, and was encouraged by a friend who works at BMW Munich and I had nothing better to do, I drove 650miles to Munich in my i3s, which is battery only with a c.120 mile range. Given that in the petrol I would normally stop for an hour lunch break anyway, the entire journey took me 90minutes longer than usual. I don't think that's crazy bad on what is a 10hour non-stop journey and it was a current gen short range car, in a few years they'll be much better. If I only did this journey once a year the cost savings would be worth the inconvenience on an occasional long trip (having said that - I won't do it again I just wanted to test if it was possible, I'll take a petrol next time as I like cruising at high speed on the autobahn and it was only this efficient as the German charging network is far superior to the UK networks which I think are awful. I wouldn't do a 600mile EV only trip in the UK). Yes I'm sure I'll get lots of replies like "I would want to do that journey non stop at 140mph", which is fine, but these journeys *are* possible already.
As for cost - yes the cars are expensive to buy there's no avoiding that. But you need to look at the total cost of ownership. My i3s costs a fair bit up front but I do 20-25k miles a year. I'm saving £250 a month just on fuel. Then there's servicing, I was servicing my previous car every 12k miles, so approx every 6 months, but my i3 is every 2 years regardless of mileage so 1/4 of the trips to the dealer, more savings there. All they do is change the brake fluid and pollen filter and maybe kick the tyres. Brake pads will cover triple the distance as they're barely used with the electric motor slowing the car down in normal driving. The only thing I've come across which is more expensive is tyres as the i3 is a daft size (20" and 175 front/195 rear wide?!) But overall I'm saving a large amount monthly and that's compared to a 45-50mpg petrol I had previously which wasn't RWD, c.180bhp and 0-60 in 6.7s. I.e. this car is way more fun to drive. I also quite like the handling as the all the weight (the battery) is in the floor of the car and I find one pedal driving very relaxing in traffic. The instant torque delivery is also hugely addictive.
Battery life - can't be compared to mobile phones. A phone is space constrained so they push them as far as they can and 100-0% is a very deep cycle. It's also vulnerable to being left in the sun, kept warm all day etc. The cars have a battery management system which blocks out the extremes of state and charge and keeps them warm/cool when necessary which hugely extends life. If you kept a phone battery in a cool climate and only cycled it 10-90% it would last much longer. The battery in my car also has an 8 year warranty so BMW must have faith in the longevity.
I'd never get an EV if I had to rely on public charging though, not until there are hubs with multiple rapids. They're too unreliable at the moment. 90% of my charging is done at home or work.
Then there's the other benefits like remotely starting the climate control etc. I actually prefer this in summer to winter, loved getting into a cold car in the recent heat wave.
Anyway, that's probably enough. Flame away
Soldato
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you mean it had the equivalent of a gearbox transplant at 36000 miles, and 2 engine swaps. yes i'm sure most ic cars could match that......
If you actually look at what was replaced and why in the full article it paints a more realistic picture of the longevity of the drive train.
Drive unit: There was a design flaw in the early drive units, Tesla opt to replace them like pretty much every other main dealer would do with something like a gearbox on a relatively new expensive car that was under warranty (8 years, unlimited miles). ICE manufactures are not immune to this, the new MX-5 and its dodgy gearbox is a very good example of this.
Battery Pack after 200k: The first pack the owners of the car admit they essentially killed the pack due to their abuse of it. They exclusively charging it from empty to 100% multiple times a day using a supercharger. For context the car is a Taxi/Limo that constantly drives between LA and Vegas (270 miles each way). Not exactly representative of typical usage and is very much an edge case. Even if they paid for the pack to be replaced (they didn't due to warranty) the savings over fuel costs would have far outweighed any replacement cost.
I think the point about how many cars do 200k before being scrapped is very relevant here. Most EV's will not have an unlimited mileage warranty but hardly any cars do 200k outside of a taxi and those that do make it that far will have paid for themselves in fuel savings.
Second Battery Pack: This one was faulty, it didn't last long at all and Tesla certainly messed up somewhere when it was made. You also wouldn't write off the whole pack, the majority of the modules would have been fine and can be re-used or the pack refurbished.
Same with the first pack, even well used cells still contain a huge amount of energy and can be put into other applications such as grid storage. It's just pretty dangerous to do and should only be done by someone that knows exactly what they are doing.
This thread needs a poll, looking back on past threads there certainly seems to be a shift towards EV's and PHEV's. Availability and price seems to be a bigger issue over range these days. Charging for people who don't have a drive is clearly still an issue.
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Soldato
Sure, the journey is *possible*. Is it remotely as straightforward?
Take my Burton-Villelongue example. 120 miles gets me around halfway to the Eurotunnel terminal. So already you've added an hour to the UK leg of the trip, otherwise you're not getting enough charge in to do it in one stop. And that assumes that I'm actually going to get near to that 120 mile full-to-empty range, and that I can actually find a working charge point at a convenient stop on that route.
Then France. Assuming that I had the time to get the EV recharged to 100% at Folkestone (not a given, and even so you're talking about more time taken up there) then once again I have, ideally, 120 miles range. So I *might* make it to Rouen on that first charge, but it'd be bloody tight. Chartres would have to be the next stop (and you'd stop overnight there anyway in a petrol or diesel car), Orleans is just too far. Then my options are Bourges - maybe in range, maybe not - or go instead on the Nevers route and stop at Gien or Briare to charge up. Assuming I left Briare with a full battery I can now make it to Montluçon. Can't make Saint-Flour from there on 120 miles of range, so I'd have to stop at Issoire after Clermont-Ferrand. After that, I should make l'Aire de l'Aveyron on the A75. The charge I get there will get me over the Millau Viaduct and to Beziers. And from Beziers to Villelongue de la Salanque.
And all this is assuming that I can find EV charging points along the route at convenient points on the upper end of the EV's range. Oh, and the other kicker - once in Villelongue we don't actually have parking at the house, the car has to go in the municipal car park up the road and there's no charging points there. And even if you could park it on the road outside for hours, the wiring in the house barely copes with a plug-in electric heater in winter let alone charging up a car. So charging it there isn't a runner. There are charging points in Perpignan if you have enough juice to get there, and the local government put in some solar powered chargers at Saint-Marie beach - there were two of them at last report, so assuming you could get up early enough in the day to get there before they have a three mile queue for them AND assuming you still have the range to get to Saint-Marie then you can pick up power there.
So you've got two charging stops in the UK, seven or eight at best in France depending on where you managed to find to charge. And what, an hour at each of those stops to get the battery full? You sure aren't doing that trip in two days in a 120 mile range EV then are you? Plus the lack of anything approaching convenience at the other end. Then you get to do it all over again on the way back up. At least with the hypothetical future 500 mile EV you could get to Chartres day 1, charge it overnight, and day two just add a bit of charge whenever you stop for coffee at an aire. Then you'll almost certainly have the range to get into Perpignan to charge up when you're down there.
Until then? Easier and waaaaaaaaay less stress to use a diesel Kia Soul.
