Soldato
Dunno, wife has just booked another AirBnb for padstow in July.... I’m starting to get charger anxiety 
When are you going fully electric?
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The try before you buy scheme is a good idea, the issue isn’t really about running out, but being able to recharge in a convenient location in a reasonable amount of time.
But I don’t agree that 99% of people wouldn’t need or should we say want the range, particularly in 2021. 200 miles isn’t that far if the journey is broken up like a day trip. 200 miles also isn’t really 200 miles, the last bit of the battery the car will be in a low power or even a turtle mode.
90 miles really isn’t that far on a decent trunk road, you can easily cover it in under 2 hours.
Sure you could stop and charge on that trunk road but no one wants to stop on those sorts of medium length journeys but the reality is you might unless you drive like an elderly person. In reality no one wants that either.
That would mostly be solved by there being plenty of ‘destination chargers’ but they just went there at the moment.
I might only need the range once a month but it comes down to am I willing to pay the extra for the convenience of only having to stop on a long journey instead of two medium ones. I think the answer for most people is yes, particularly if this is a primary car.
When your spending £42k+ On a brand new car, the chances are it’s a primary car.
Soldato
Don't overlook the fact the bigger battery also gets more power, over 1 sec off the 0-60 and will tow 1600kg braked trailer.
Any data on life after 10 years?
Tesla Model S launched in 2012 and there is plenty of data on them. Loads of high mileage examples in there too.
Nissan Leaf launched around the same time but it doesn’t have an active battery thermal management system so they didn’t fair as well, particularly in very hot climates like Arizona. Those are where the general mis-information comes from. Nissan are the ones that don’t have active thermal management (leaf, env-200 vans).
Nissan Leaf launched around the same time but it doesn’t have an active battery thermal management system so they didn’t fair as well, particularly in very hot climates like Arizona. Those are where the general mis-information comes from. Nissan are the ones that don’t have active thermal management (leaf, env-200 vans).
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Soldato
What does that really matter though? Or are you just generally interested how much they degrade after then?
not every changes/dumps their car every 3-5 years... and also if buying a 2nd hand EV you might want an idea of the estimated battery life left before it becomes a pile of junk??
Soldato
Why does it all of a sudden become a pile of junk? Do you think that all of a sudden one day it will just lose all capacity with zero warning?
No, but batteries DO have a shelf life.. ICE tends to work (largely as new) until it ceases to work
Personally an EV with 50% range does NOT appeal.
I do NOT know the figures though which is why I asked if there was any data on range drop off vs age
Personally an EV with 50% range does NOT appeal.
I do NOT know the figures though which is why I asked if there was any data on range drop off vs age
Soldato
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Would be interesting if the i4 uses lots of carbon in the construction. Seems to be the case with the iX, similar construction to the i3 from what I saw earlier (one of Bjorn's vids)
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Soldato
Got this from an article on Tesla model s cars, bear in mind they're first gen and a lot of learning has come from them so newer battery chemistry's should be better again. I think we're already at a stage where the battery will outlast the rest of the car, much like an ICE vehicle is now. The bonus is when if you scrap it at 250k miles the battery pack is still worth a fair chunk of cash as it's got lots of 2nd life uses like home or grid storage and after that recycled into new batteries.
"It shows around 10 to 15% battery degradation between 150,000 to 200,000 miles, which is in line with what owners have reported in previous crowdsourced reports"
Soldato
Indeed, most parts be that electrical or mechanical have a useful life, I am pretty sure there are a good few ICE cars out there that are a comparison to Trigger's broom.
50% range might be ideal for some though (if we are using those extreme's) after all in 12 years times when a Tesla Model 3 LR that has done the average UK mileage of ~100k even if the pack was at 50% of original that would be 150-170 miles, but the car might only cost £8-10k after 12 years, or even less depending on how far the technology has come. Heck the battery packs might be worth more than the car, or you might be able to get a retrofit pack for a fraction of the cost you can now, since the Model 3 will be one of the most popular BEV's made in the 20's.
Well it makes little difference to you really, since they only time you need to educate yourself on such matters (unless you are generally interested) is when you are possibly looking to buy a BEV, and you've made it quite clear that you will not be for a long time yet.
Soldato
What if it was actually as bad as 50% range, but the car fell to just 20% of the original price? Which as a rough guess is the general depreciation of most cars that old? Would you be interested?
All I'm saying is, you're talking about cars getting to an age where they're getting to the bottom end of the market/don't matter. You wouldn't expect an ICE to be perfect after 10 years, you'd expect parts and electrics to be degraded. I think 50% range is highly unlikely anyway.
Essentially, you're trying make (a somewhat weak) general anti EV argument. Why is this?
I did a 200 mile round trip to Weston Supermare today, four up, the boot filled with day trip stuff including chairs, a table & a football goal (12x6ft) and got home with 29% battery still remaining. Mostly motorway with an average speed of 65mph.
That’s all I need
That’s all I need
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I think our family will not be going full EV for many years now, not until there's a distinct improvement in the practicality of full battery EV cars. I spoke with my other half about this. We go away nearly every other month now, typically 350 miles from home and normally to a place we can't charge overnight. I travel for work every week, say 500 mile round trip. We agree a hybrid would do us well right now, for the distance bits and for that added flexibility when we're staying where we can't charge. It'd be nice to zoom around towns and cities on electric. We don't need a new car soon though, maybe two years time. We quite fancy the Jag hybrid SUVs at the moment but a lot can change by the time we get round to buying.
Indeed the i4 publicity/headlines doesn't tell you if the car is an obese 2tonner, or a model3 nimble featherweight.
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About long term/2nd hand ownership, too, would be interesting to know man hours for battery pack removal/diagnosis/cell-fixes,
cars with that optimisation could win out on residuals ... this isn't like iphone battery replacement, is it.
Nissan Leaf battery repair. I suppose this is the same sort of level of repair an engine and transmission would be on a normal car.
Soldato
The press release literally tells you ~2200Kg for the AWD M50 and the images show the usual car construction you would expect on a CLAR platform.
thanks - I had checked back on the poster posted, but, it wasn't highlighted there ... an f30 320d google tells me is 1505Kg - wtf