When are you going fully electric?

[jpaul]

I didn't think the proprietary aspect of battery technology/chemistry was now so great ?
Tesla were engaged with Panasonic, but aren't panasonic now doing there own thing, with other car manufacturers, so their expertise is spread;
equally - the recent USA legal action about battery tech stealing , where hyundai were able to take an alternative supplier (LG?) so, commoditization.

nonetheless pouch versus hardwalled seems like two distinct paths, was the tesla tech where they bought the anode/cathode out to the battery edge by castellation purloined.

 

[Freefaller]

The standard batteries almost force standard vehicle proportions/widths, crash mechanism, charging profiles, standardised power electronics, stand power performance from the EDU, the cooling design etc etc. So take always a lot of the tuning for what the car needs to be or what attributes the OEM need.

Of course you're right - but that's where the innovation and design comes into it! How to make it unique with standard parts!

 

[Journey]

With regards to standard parts/battery swap, how do you deal with SoH deterioration issues? e.g. If you have Car-A that can do 250 miles real world range on a brand new pack, and that is what you then expect every time, surely the lifespan of swapped packs would be shorter overall even with better charging rates that lowers degradation. Some people might be fine getting a pack that does 220 miles others might not. With a car that has a fixed pack you accept the pack has a warranty and a range decrease over time, so it isn't expected to be the same range for the entire life of the pack.
Would you have a tiered charge, where higher SoH packs cost more to swap to? Also how much should a swap cost in relation to the electricity supplied, after all the pack has to be charged first, then installed, and the old one removed, which has to be more expensive that a static charging station that could last 10-20 years, with the user doing all the work, and paying for the electricity only with margin applied. I suppose the benefit of the pack swap would be that it can be charged off-peak, and packs not being used could have some form of V2G connection, acting as semi-static grid storage
You'd also need more packs than cars, and how many different sized packs would you need? Seems daft having a 250 mile range pack in a town/city run-around car, when you don't even need half that, and small packs obviously can charge to full more quickly.

There are negatives, and positives as usual, but lets not forget we are still in the infancy of mass adoption of vehicles using battery packs, so things can change.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

As someone pointed out, the main issue is that it means you effectively need standard chassis on all cars, you can’t make the battery a structural component of the vehicle of it needs to be easily removed.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

With regards to standard parts/battery swap, how do you deal with SoH deterioration issues? e.g. If you have Car-A that can do 250 miles real world range on a brand new pack, and that is what you then expect every time, surely the lifespan of swapped packs would be shorter overall even with better charging rates that lowers degradation. Some people might be fine getting a pack that does 220 miles others might not. With a car that has a fixed pack you accept the pack has a warranty and a range decrease over time, so it isn't expected to be the same range for the entire life of the pack.
Would you have a tiered charge, where higher SoH packs cost more to swap to? Also how much should a swap cost in relation to the electricity supplied, after all the pack has to be charged first, then installed, and the old one removed, which has to be more expensive that a static charging station that could last 10-20 years, with the user doing all the work, and paying for the electricity only with margin applied. I suppose the benefit of the pack swap would be that it can be charged off-peak, and packs not being used could have some form of V2G connection, acting as semi-static grid storage
You'd also need more packs than cars, and how many different sized packs would you need? Seems daft having a 250 mile range pack in a town/city run-around car, when you don't even need half that, and small packs obviously can charge to full more quickly.

There are negatives, and positives as usual, but lets not forget we are still in the infancy of mass adoption of vehicles using battery packs, so things can change.

NIO are doing it in China to be fair. Mainly as the city infrastructure doesn't have people with their own spaces for chargers.

 

[fez]

The vast majority of people simply won't be able to have an electric car until they sort out a nationwide, public system of charging points that people can use when they are at home. I live on a street where I can park outside my house perhaps 2-3 times a month. I would have to run a cable over the pavement to the house as well.

I would love an electric car but its just not practical yet.

 

[Blackjack Davy]

The vast majority of people simply won't be able to have an electric car until they sort out a nationwide, public system of charging points that people can use when they are at home. I live on a street where I can park outside my house perhaps 2-3 times a month. I would have to run a cable over the pavement to the house as well.

I would love an electric car but its just not practical yet.

Yeah that is the biggest issue here theres no parking other than street parking which is first come first serve and running an electric cable out the window across teh pavement all night isn't going to work, in flats you can't even put up a satellite dish without permission nevermind a charging point

 

[fez]

Yeah that is the biggest issue here theres no parking other than street parking which is first come first serve and running an electric cable out the window across teh pavement all night isn't going to work, in flats you can't even put up a satellite dish without permission nevermind a charging point

I wouldn't trust the local yoots not to mess with it either. I wouldn't be surprised that once they take off, a few idiots will cut the cables and kill themselves and that sort of thing would get banned.

 

[Journey]

street parking which is first come first serve and running an electric cable out the window across teh pavement all night isn't going to work

There are councils making headway, IIRC Oxford have had trials for a good while now, and the terraced parking solution they liked the best was the one below.

Allocated parking, and/or parking permits will become more normal outside of London if you have space outside of your own property to fit a vehicle of a reasonable size.

EDIT: Other solutions are listed/shown here that they have been trying.

 

[Kenai]

Things like that will become gradually more workable for some people and leave an ever smaller number of people 'left out'.

Average mileage for UK is something like 8,000 miles last time I looked, assuming regular driving that's 150 miles a week. So someone on that routine doesn't necessarily need to charge 'at home', if they can adjust their accepted routine to fill a 250 mile range car during some weekly shopping for example, rather than a petrol fill up on the way to work on Monday morning each week.

As charging gets faster and ranges get better, more people will be able to manage on public charging (and people who can do home charging won't be taking up public charging space as often)

 

[b0rn2sk8]

It should be worth pointing out that those without off street parking are also the minority, not the majority.

Those living in inner city locations are also less likely to own cars.

 

[lordrobs]

It should be worth pointing out that those without off street parking are also the minority, not the majority.

Those living in inner city locations are also less likely to own cars.

It will probably help tidy up a lot of housing estates. A lot of people with allocated parking or off street parking / garage that is more than 4 steps from their front door often resort to parking on the road or pavement to save a few seconds walk. One of the estates in our village has loads of communal parking yet it sits at about 25% full while the roads are scattered with cars. A couple of roads up from me is cars scattered everywhere while the communal garages sit full of old junk and the obligatory half finished "green laning project" under a tarp. The bin men started a bit of a dirty protest and simply stopped collecting once the the bin wagon got as far as it could

There will be plenty of solutions for people long before the option to run an ICE is no longer viable. They just may not be as convenient or as cheap as pulling up outside your front door and hooking up to your domestic supply.

 

[Greebo]

It will probably help tidy up a lot of housing estates. A lot of people with allocated parking or off street parking / garage that is more than 4 steps from their front door often resort to parking on the road or pavement to save a few seconds walk. One of the estates in our village has loads of communal parking yet it sits at about 25% full while the roads are scattered with cars. A couple of roads up from me is cars scattered everywhere while the communal garages sit full of old junk and the obligatory half finished "green laning project" under a tarp. The bin men started a bit of a dirty protest and simply stopped collecting once the the bin wagon got as far as it could

There will be plenty of solutions for people long before the option to run an ICE is no longer viable. They just may not be as convenient or as cheap as pulling up outside your front door and hooking up to your domestic supply.

Stupid thing is for decades housebuilder have been allowed to build garages that only a fiat 500 would fit inside. Last 90s house I owned I could get my car in but there was only 2 inches either side so you couldnt get out and it was only a Peugeot 406 so nothing massive. Cars have got much bigger since.

 

[JBod]

The vast majority of people simply won't be able to have an electric car until they sort out a nationwide, public system of charging points that people can use when they are at home. I live on a street where I can park outside my house perhaps 2-3 times a month. I would have to run a cable over the pavement to the house as well.

I would love an electric car but its just not practical yet.

This is something they have legit solved in the US. The Tesla supercharging network is phenomenal, I've only had to use it once (50A / 240V in my garage) but charging from 20% to 80% in 10-15mins was impressive. You can get across the US in an EV and always have access to a charger now.

Stupid thing is for decades housebuilder have been allowed to build garages that only a fiat 500 would fit inside. Last 90s house I owned I could get my car in but there was only 2 inches either side so you couldnt get out and it was only a Peugeot 406 so nothing massive. Cars have got much bigger since.

I bought a new house in the UK late last year, I dont think a single person on the entire development keeps their car in the garage. There just isn't room.

 

[AndrewNR]

There are councils making headway, IIRC Oxford have had trials for a good while now, and the terraced parking solution they liked the best was the one below.

Allocated parking, and/or parking permits will become more normal outside of London if you have space outside of your own property to fit a vehicle of a reasonable size.

EDIT: Other solutions are listed/shown here that they have been trying.

If I was in that situation, even that solution would have me wondering what I could wake up to on a Sat/Sun morning...

Personally, still not an EV out there that ticks the affordability/desirability for me.
Teslas are quick but look utter ***** inside and out. Polestar 2 is close but a bit too slow for the price. Cheapest Taycan is still too expensive and even slower etc.
A lot of mini SUVs/hatchback EVs seem to be impracticable too in terms of boot space?

Hopefully the faster Ioniq 5, Ford Mach-E, ID-4 or EV6 might offer something (except ridiculous prices with no Government support).
Maybe the BMW i4 M50 (or whatever it is) might shake things up for 'interesting' EVs?

If I wasn't a "car guy", then I'd imagine a regular Ioniq would be ideal but Christ, my neighbours have one, what a absolutely dull thing it is.

 

[Journey]

If I was in that situation, even that solution would have me wondering what I could wake up to on a Sat/Sun morning...

I dunno a giant man sized chicken outside your door handing out leaflets about saving chickens?

 

[AndrewNR]

I dunno a giant man sized chicken outside your door handing out leaflets about saving chickens?

I'd quite enjoy that - was thinking more alcohol-based shenanigans. Can only assume you have lived in better places than I .

 

[Journey]

I'd quite enjoy that - was thinking more alcohol-based shenanigans. Can only assume you have lived in better places than I .

I was thinking Family Guy.

Unless the planning on drunkenly carrying very large wire cutters, there not much they could do, the cable is fixed at the wall and and locked into the car during it being connected and the car locked/charging.

If I wasn't a "car guy", then I'd imagine a regular Ioniq would be ideal but Christ, my neighbours have one, what a absolutely dull thing it is.

Love my super mega ultra dull boring regular Ioniq.

 

[AndrewNR]

I was thinking Family Guy.

Unless the planning on drunkenly carrying very large wire cutters, there not much they could do, the cable is fixed at the wall and and locked into the car during it being connected and the car locked/charging.



Love my super mega ultra dull boring regular Ioniq.

Ah, never watched it so didn't get the reference, thought it was sarcasm.
I can imagine cretins having a good tug (oe-er) on the plug in the middle of the night though
Didn't mean to offend with my Ioniq comment - as I said would be my go-to 'non-petrolhead' EV

 

[Matutu]

Just given up on the Plaid +, so pick up the Taycan end of the month instead.

the acceleration is something else, couldn’t believe the feeling.