When are you going fully electric?
- Thread starter Ricochet J
- Start date
The same old cyclical discussions of costs/taxes/grants etc.
You pay what you are asked to pay now, not what might be in the future. I am sure some people posting in here would say sorry I can buy a bag of potatoes for £1 as they might cost £1.50 in 5 years so I shouldn't buy them now.
You pay what you are asked to pay now, not what might be in the future. I am sure some people posting in here would say sorry I can buy a bag of potatoes for £1 as they might cost £1.50 in 5 years so I shouldn't buy them now.
![[TW]Fox](/data/man-of-honor/2009.png){kind=avatar}
I'm not anti EV at all. On the contrary my next car will hopefully be an EV. I like them! I'm just not blind to the downsides, of which there are many, or ignorant of the context that allows them to currently be cheap.
Petrol will likely always be the most convenient and useful form of propulsion and without artificially making it expensive or subsidising the alternative or flat out banning them many people won't change because the alternative won't suit them as well.
If EV was the flawless and perfect platform you think it is we wouldn't need to give huge tax breaks and ban the alternatives to make people change. They'd do it anyway!
It's like AMD versus Nvidia this thread at times, what's wrong with a bit of balanced discussion?
By contrast people like yourself rubbish the circumstances and requirements of those who have different needs than you do. You don't encourage change by simply criticizing those who want something different from a car. Some people do tow a caravan, some people do drive a long way to places where they can't leave a car on charge, etc etc.
Many people want range. Get over it - like it or not range or the perception of range is probably the biggest barrier to mass EV adoption right now.
Last edited:
Of course electric vehicles are being subsidised- that's the point. Drive market share at a time when market forces alone wouldn't be enough to encourage adoption. Once the user base grows and economies of scale kick in, the cars and batteries will be cheaper, and the subsidies will be removed- they won't be needed any more.
Perfectly reasonable and sensible strategy. In the end, everyone wins- the consumer gets a better, cheaper product, governments don't have to fund emerging technology any more, and car companies keep their margins. Always surprises me that this has to be explained to people on a technology forum, that often has (or used to have) a high proportion of early adopters and a forward-looking mindset.
Perfectly reasonable and sensible strategy. In the end, everyone wins- the consumer gets a better, cheaper product, governments don't have to fund emerging technology any more, and car companies keep their margins. Always surprises me that this has to be explained to people on a technology forum, that often has (or used to have) a high proportion of early adopters and a forward-looking mindset.
Thing is, your average PC user doesn't face punitive taxation and road charging for having a previous generation GPU. The government doesn't tax the poor to give tax breaks to the wealthy to buy a new GPU.
The current system reminds me of the solar panel craze a few years ago. The cash rich home owners were given a subsidy to fit solar panels on the promise they would massively reduce the cost for others to get solar. Instead, the cost of fitting solar is still unaffordable for most, the subsidies have stopped even you could afford them, and now we a have situation where the already wealthy are still benefitting from cheap energy while the masses face crippling energy cost rises.
Same with EV's, most parked outside a house with solar panels on the roof, while the owner will smugly tell everyone how cheap it is to run, and how many £££'s of taxpayers money were spunked to help them get it a discount.
How many of your average Amazon warehouse workers, or a carer, or a supermarket shelf stacker get access to the kind salary sacrifice schemes, or company car schemes some on here benefit from? Not many I bet.
Most leases deals I look at become very uncompetitive if you want to drive over 15,000 miles a year. I would come close to doubling my monthly motoring costs to lease an EV, and when my car is paid for next year then the monthly running costs of a EV will be 3 or 4 times higher.
I liked the Tesla when I test drove it. Was due to switch cars. Tried various other options (Loved Skoda Superb/ M4/ Audi's etc that I also test drove)
Bought it based on test drive of M3, and a hugely advantageous financial package, I bought the model 3.
Interest free loan up to £35k from Scottish Government (Energy Saving Trust)
Full FYA via my Ltd company
0% (at the time) BIK
Still free charging in my local authority (generally charge for nothing at least once of twice a week at golf course - public charger)
Massively discounted install of home charger (£500 government grant, plus another £300 Scottish government grant discount - £330 install costs to me)
Add all that up and it was a no brainer for me to get M3.
Bought it based on test drive of M3, and a hugely advantageous financial package, I bought the model 3.
Interest free loan up to £35k from Scottish Government (Energy Saving Trust)
Full FYA via my Ltd company
0% (at the time) BIK
Still free charging in my local authority (generally charge for nothing at least once of twice a week at golf course - public charger)
Massively discounted install of home charger (£500 government grant, plus another £300 Scottish government grant discount - £330 install costs to me)
Add all that up and it was a no brainer for me to get M3.
OK, so what's a actually figure in £'s on that??
For me to lease a standard M3 with a 15,000 mile deal, I'm gonna looking at north of £500 a month, not including finding the money for the initial payment.
That's more than my mortgage, and 2.5 times my monthly motoring costs right now, and when my car is paid off, will be over five times the cost. That's without even charging the thing.
No EV for me anytime soon.
For me to lease a standard M3 with a 15,000 mile deal, I'm gonna looking at north of £500 a month, not including finding the money for the initial payment.
That's more than my mortgage, and 2.5 times my monthly motoring costs right now, and when my car is paid off, will be over five times the cost. That's without even charging the thing.
No EV for me anytime soon.
True, but everything from analogue and digital computers, ARPANET and the Web have been created by or developed though public funding, not to mention the technological developments in physics, electronics, materials and other forms of engineering behind the technology driven by universities, which are massive recipients of government money.
The grant for solar should have continued by the way- it was short sighted to remove it. Another example of policy making being driven by the bottom line without thought of a medium or long-term strategy.
Talking about energy, Hinckley Point C is being built by EDF and CGN, which are largely French state and Chinese state owned. Public investment/backing in infrastructure is critical.
And how much are you spending on fuel currently to drive that 15,000 miles? At 50 MPG, and the current prices that is ~£1,900 per year, so if nothing changes and you keep your car for the next 4 years, you'll have spent over £7.5k just on fuel, no servicing, or repairs, or anything else.
Yeah definitely need to do the figures but I think it's going to be worthwhile. I put in over 30% into my pension so I don't mind sacrificing this a bit to get a brand new car.
Good point on the charger network situation.
Yeah definitely will wait for the actual prices, I spoke to a few friends and they have similar packages and the base model 3 was roughly £310 a month which I don't think is too bad at all.
4 years of £500 a month is £24k, plus around £3k initial rental.
I'm thinking the 6 year old diesel is still coming in under budget.
I didn't ask how much you were going to spend, I asked how much your fuel is costing...
What's your point. My fuel costs pay for the Tesla for 4 months?
So what do I do the other 8 months?
Do you even understand how people on modest incomes live??
Convincing people they will save money by buying something they can't afford won't make them suddenly able to afford the thing that will save them money.
They will have to make do with the thing they can afford, even it if it's more expensive to run the thing.
I'm not trying to be an arse or anything, I've been looking at deals on EV's, especially with the kind of cars coming to market right now, and with our payrise this year, I've been looking to see if I can make the switch.
I just simply can't justify the cost. While.i know there's cheaper stuff than the Tesla, nothing yet seems to come close to the break even point of making the switch.
Obviously I'm not the only person in the country in this position.
Can you at least understand why it grates a bit when people bang on about how cheap their running costs are, when it's effectively unobtainable for those who would benefit most from the chance to switch to EV tech.
I just simply can't justify the cost. While.i know there's cheaper stuff than the Tesla, nothing yet seems to come close to the break even point of making the switch.
Obviously I'm not the only person in the country in this position.
Can you at least understand why it grates a bit when people bang on about how cheap their running costs are, when it's effectively unobtainable for those who would benefit most from the chance to switch to EV tech.
When did I say you had to buy a Tesla?
You didn't. You told me fuel is expensive as if I hadn't taken it in to account when comparing ownership costs.
Yes, I was trying to point out that any money spent on fuel is a total loss, much like leasing is if you insist on doing it when it isn't competitive, be that ICE or BEV. So only looking at one method of ownership (usership?) is not always the bet comparison to make.
Can't afford to buy one either, but I take your point.
You are comparing a 6 year old used vehicle with a brand new one and it’s a wonder why the brand new one costs more.
No one compares a 6 year old ICE and a brand new one and expect the new one to provide a lower cost of ownership.
Put an equivalent car/spec BMW/Merc/Audi/Volvo against the Model 3 and the numbers are very different, particularly if you are a company car driver but even just outright ownership.