When are you going fully electric?

Soldato
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Sure if you want to sit there in the cold for hours waiting for it.

it’s not cold, the car has an awesome heater, infact when doing this you would take the family and dog to make sure they are warm rather than sitting waiting in a cold house… can even charge your phones there so have some entertainment when you get homes.

GREAT idea Nasher, you are really embracing this flexible energy mantra now not constrained by the single fuel use experience offered at the fuel forecourt.
 
Soldato
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Yea for like 12 hours, then you have a cold house and no transport.
If I was to use a 90kw battery, my house may last for just shy of a week.

If I turned everything off, and only used heating in one room. Could get that up to two weeks.

Add solar power to recharge. Could last over a month.
 
Soldato
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False economy, just buy your existing car when you can otherwise you are forever stuck in the PCP/lease debt cycle.

I don't mind it that much. Driving is quite a chore these days, roads are very busy - I'm happy to effectively just rent the car as a service now, I have little interest in owning a depreciating asset.
 
Soldato
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I don't mind it that much. Driving is quite a chore these days, roads are very busy - I'm happy to effectively just rent the car as a service now, I have little interest in owning a depreciating asset.

With leasing all you are doing is renting the depreciation. Makes no sense to me.
 
Soldato
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I don't mind it that much. Driving is quite a chore these days, roads are very busy - I'm happy to effectively just rent the car as a service now, I have little interest in owning a depreciating asset.
I totally get that statement but to me that makes buying something that has done the bulk of its depreciation and keeping it longer term the obvious solution.

I must be missing something though as everyone seems to reel off their latest car lease deal like they are the love child of Warren Buffett and Mike Brewer while in my mind I'm working the seemingly obvious metric of total cost / total permitted mileage and wondering how 45 ppm (or more) excluding fuel, tax, insurance and maintenance is a great deal for driving a Rav 4 :o

I'd really like to have an honest discussion with someone who has the same kind of work requirements as me, who has gone full electric, to get a feel for how viable it really is. I've had an EV owner try to tell me it is viable for my usage pattern but its funny how an odd half an hour here and there for charging (which ultimately eats up my own time) seems perfectly acceptable... to someone office based on flexi-time who clocks their work hours to the nearest second.
 
Soldato
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With leasing all you are doing is renting the depreciation. Makes no sense to me.

It doesn't really matter how the depreciation is paid, it's always there. The only way you can reduce the cost of ownership is to pay the cost in full upfront which eliminates any interest charges.

The highest depreciation will always be on a brand new car. As the car gets older and older the depreciation reduces, but it's always there, plus any interest if you financed the purchase.

Telling yourself that your 100% purchased car isn't depreciating is deluding yourself. You've just lost all the money in go. If you PCP or lease a car then you pay the depreciation off over the term of the agreement, in smaller chunks. That can help with budgeting/cashflow.

If you buy a car outright for £10,000 and sell it 3 years later for £7000 it's depreciated by £3000. If you PCP the same car interest free and pay £1000 upfront and then £55 per month for 36 months with £7000 baloon payment you've still lost £3000, and you've still had the use of the car, it's just you lost the money over 3 years instead of on day 1 when you first bought the car. Plus, you have £7000 in cash tied up in a depreciating asset. Every accountant in the world will tell you that's a carp idea. In reality there are interest charges on a PCP so maybe it costs you £200 in interest, but that's a relatively small price to pay for the use of the car and the flexibility of the arrangement.

Finance isn't a bad thing, so long as you know what it's costing you. Very expensive finance is a bad thing though.
 
Soldato
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Finance isn't a bad thing, so long as you know what it's costing you. Very expensive finance is a bad thing though.

Yep, worked out the lease on the new car: payment profile is 9+35 with £2,792.61 initial and £310.29 monthly, for a total of £10,549.86 against a P11D of £35,560. So I'm paying for 29.7% depreciation on a brand new car over three years doesn't seem like the worse deal in the world to me.
 
Soldato
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If you buy a car outright for £10,000 and sell it 3 years later for £7000 it's depreciated by £3000. If you PCP the same car interest free and pay £1000 upfront and then £55 per month for 36 months with £7000 baloon payment you've still lost £3000, and you've still had the use of the car, it's just you lost the money over 3 years instead of on day 1 when you first bought the car. Plus, you have £7000 in cash tied up in a depreciating asset. Every accountant in the world will tell you that's a carp idea. In reality there are interest charges on a PCP so maybe it costs you £200 in interest, but that's a relatively small price to pay for the use of the car and the flexibility of the arrangement.

Finance isn't a bad thing, so long as you know what it's costing you. Very expensive finance is a bad thing though.

The mythical 0% used car pcp? Most are 8/9/10%.

Yep, worked out the lease on the new car: payment profile is 9+35 with £2,792.61 initial and £310.29 monthly, for a total of £10,549.86 against a P11D of £35,560. So I'm paying for 29.7% depreciation on a brand new car over three years doesn't seem like the worse deal in the world to me.

£2792.61 + (35x£310.29) = £13652.76.
 
Soldato
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I'd really like to have an honest discussion with someone who has the same kind of work requirements as me, who has gone full electric, to get a feel for how viable it really is. I've had an EV owner try to tell me it is viable for my usage pattern but its funny how an odd half an hour here and there for charging (which ultimately eats up my own time) seems perfectly acceptable... to someone office based on flexi-time who clocks their work hours to the nearest second.

I do 1500 - 3000 miles per month and from what you've posted in the past I'd say we're in similar roles.

The charging time has to be work time. I work when I charge the car. I process e-mails, orders and make calls from the car while charging.

I always pick a hotel with a charger if possible. That's a good way to charge and not notice it. Likewise, I tend to eat in places that have chargers and charge then as well.

It's not as easy as running a diesel. It's just not. It requires planning and it definitely alters the way you look at mobility.

The upside is the saving in BIK on a company car. That's it. I wouldn't be in a BEV if it didn't save me a chunk of money on BIK taxes.
 
Soldato
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The mythical 0% used car pcp? Most are 8/9/10%.

In reality there are interest charges on a PCP so maybe it costs you £200 in interest, but that's a relatively small price to pay for the use of the car and the flexibility of the arrangement.

What part of £200 interest on £2000 borrowed isn't reflective of a 10% interest rate? You're financially illiterate and apparently not ashamed of it. It's nothing to be proud of.
 
Caporegime
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Yep, worked out the lease on the new car: payment profile is 9+35 with £2,792.61 initial and £310.29 monthly, for a total of £10,549.86 against a P11D of £35,560. So I'm paying for 29.7% depreciation on a brand new car over three years doesn't seem like the worse deal in the world to me.

In normal times that might not be a great deal. if buying or PCP you might have got between 10-20% off the new price factoring in any contribution to the PCP deal so would have only paid as little as £28,448 for the car.

Your total lease cost is £13,652.76 so would be 48% of the car value in depreciation.

Dont get me wrong, I am massively in favour of leases when the price is right. Had a Mini Cooper S worth £28k list price a few years ago on a 2 year lease deal (6+24) for 10,000 miles per annum at £202.80 per month with free servicing so £6,084 in total. Cheap motoring as only need insurance, went back on its original tyres
 
Soldato
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The above is true if you're talking about buying a new car vs leasing but if you're going for a nearly new used car where the big initial deprecation had already happened then I think it is pretty poor value
 
Caporegime
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The above is true if you're talking about buying a new car vs leasing but if you're going for a nearly new used car where the big initial deprecation had already happened then I think it is pretty poor value

In "normal" times yesd. Nearly new used cars are currently priced pretty close to brand new list price. I have seen many 1 year old cars where with discount I can order the exact same car new and pay less, if I am prepared to wait up to a year.

My BMW X5 came in at £72k after I got a 12% discount. I was having a flick through last night and any used of similar spec were all more money despite being up to a year old and with 4000 miles on them.
 
Soldato
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What part of £200 interest on £2000 borrowed isn't reflective of a 10% interest rate? You're financially illiterate and apparently not ashamed of it. It's nothing to be proud of.

Oh dear. You haven't borrowed £2000 you've borrowed £9000 in your example. Don't go insulting people unless you are actually correct.

FWIW on your example, £10000 car, £1000 deposit, 36 months, 8% APR. Your monthly would be ~£110 x 36 = £3960 + 1000 deposit = £4960 + £7000 balloon = £11960. So £1960 in interest, but yes I'm the financially illiterate one :cry:
 
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Soldato
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In "normal" times yesd. Nearly new used cars are currently priced pretty close to brand new list price. I have seen many 1 year old cars where with discount I can order the exact same car new and pay less, if I am prepared to wait up to a year.

My BMW X5 came in at £72k after I got a 12% discount. I was having a flick through last night and any used of similar spec were all more money despite being up to a year old and with 4000 miles on them.

Perhaps it's different at the higher (or midrange, idk?) prices like that... Most I've ever paid for a car is the current one at £14.5k... which admittedly was for something "only" a few grand cheaper than I could have gotten it new - but at that price a few grand is quite a big chunk of the overall purchase cost and every little helps. Used a Personal Loan to get a much cheaper rate than the ~9% an actual Hire Purchase was going to cost - so yes a deprecating asset still but at least it will be worth something in the end not nothing. Much like renting vs mortgage really
 
Caporegime
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Perhaps it's different at the higher (or midrange, idk?) prices like that... Most I've ever paid for a car is the current one at £14.5k... which admittedly was for something "only" a few grand cheaper than I could have gotten it new - but at that price a few grand is quite a big chunk of the overall purchase cost and every little helps. Used a Personal Loan to get a much cheaper rate than the ~9% an actual Hire Purchase was going to cost - so yes a deprecating asset still but at least it will be worth something in the end not nothing. Much like renting vs mortgage really

Thats the point though, those times have gone since the shortages. That £14.5k car saving a few grand will be new price now and saving you nothing.

Years ago when i bought my own cars i used to do exactly the same as you, buy one year old ones where a massive chunk of the depreciation has been used up especially if it was a very heavily depreciating car.

But maybe as I moved up and and up to better and better cars, more luxury and high end, that didnt work anymore. I remember buying a brand new VW Touareg with the a few options and a list price of £56k for £38k as VW were offering 5k off new, another £6k contribution to the finance and I got the dealer to knock off around another £7k.

At £38k it was way cheaper than any used one for sale in the country, even just one year old ones.

Three years later I got £27k for it so it really only cost £11k in depreciation.
 
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