When are you going fully electric?

b0rn2sk8 said:
I can’t imagine there will be filling stations every few miles either, they’ll be so few ICE cars around that they will just not be viable.
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As someone who has owned a busy petrol station in the past, I can say that they are barely viable even now. IMO even in 10 years time they will be getting scarce.
 
Because it was a response to someone who suggested they will never drive an electric car. You don’t have an electric car but have said many times your next one probably will be.

Having an ICE classic car as weekend toy will be slightly different preposition to driving it daily in 20-25 years time. It’s not hard to imagine that ICE cars will be banned from major towns and cities in the not too distant future or have significant charges applied to them.

You’ll also no doubt have to pay to offset the carbon emissions from the fuel in addition to more tax being added. As noted above, you’ll end up trailing round just to get fuel when it’s no longer needed to be sold by the tanker load every other day.

To put it simply, even if they are not completely banned, they’ll be made so economically unviable to drive any significant amount of miles, it’s a defacto ban anyway.
 
b0rn2sk8 said:
Because it was a response to someone who suggested they will never drive an electric car. You don’t have an electric car but have said many times your next one probably will be.

Having an ICE classic car as weekend toy will be slightly different preposition to driving it daily in 20-25 years time. It’s not hard to imagine that ICE cars will be banned from major towns and cities in the not too distant future or have significant charges applied to them.

You’ll also no doubt have to pay to offset the carbon emissions from the fuel in addition to more tax being added. As noted above, you’ll end up trailing round just to get fuel when it’s no longer needed to be sold by the tanker load every other day.

To put it simply, even if they are not completely banned, they’ll be made so economically unviable to drive any significant amount of miles, it’s a defacto ban anyway.
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Fair comment on using one as a daily.
 
Electric car - human salvation or a credible environmental creator?
After reading Bengt Karlsson's article in ÅBO Stories, I now fully understand what irreparable damage the production of electric car batteries causes both nature and people and especially children.
"A car battery for the electric car weighs about 500 kg, the volume is the size of a suitcase. It contains 12 kg lithium, 30 kg nickel, 20 kg manganese, 15 kg cobalt, 100 kg copper, 200 kg aluminum (production is extremely electrically closed), steel and plastic. There are 6,831 lithium cells inside.
It should be worrying that all these toxic components come from mining. To make a car battery you need to process 10 tons of salt to produce lithium, 15 tons of oalm for the cobalt, 2 tons of oalm to nickel and 12 tons of oalm copper. In total, 200 tons of soil is dug up into a single battery.
Diseases and child labor are found behind 68% of the world's cobalt, and a significant portion of a battery comes from Congo. Their mines have no pollution control and they employ children dying from handling this toxic material. Should we count all these sick children as part of the costs of an electric car? "
How can one in a good conscience claim that this is better for the environment than fossil-powered cars? Has anyone ever calculated an electric car vs a fossil powered car? It should be almost childish easy to make an almost correct assessment.
Some research/evaluation we never get to see. The electric car is as good as the giant flop wind force, irresistible. Not as a function, but as a political bat. It works because lack of investigation results in politics always winning. Not because you are right, but because it is opportunistic and that it follows the narrative.
 
SkodaMart said:
Electric car - human salvation or a credible environmental creator?
After reading Bengt Karlsson's article in ÅBO Stories, I now fully understand what irreparable damage the production of electric car batteries causes both nature and people and especially children.
"A car battery for the electric car weighs about 500 kg, the volume is the size of a suitcase. It contains 12 kg lithium, 30 kg nickel, 20 kg manganese, 15 kg cobalt, 100 kg copper, 200 kg aluminum (production is extremely electrically closed), steel and plastic. There are 6,831 lithium cells inside.
It should be worrying that all these toxic components come from mining. To make a car battery you need to process 10 tons of salt to produce lithium, 15 tons of oalm for the cobalt, 2 tons of oalm to nickel and 12 tons of oalm copper. In total, 200 tons of soil is dug up into a single battery.
Diseases and child labor are found behind 68% of the world's cobalt, and a significant portion of a battery comes from Congo. Their mines have no pollution control and they employ children dying from handling this toxic material. Should we count all these sick children as part of the costs of an electric car? "
How can one in a good conscience claim that this is better for the environment than fossil-powered cars? Has anyone ever calculated an electric car vs a fossil powered car? It should be almost childish easy to make an almost correct assessment.
Some research/evaluation we never get to see. The electric car is as good as the giant flop wind force, irresistible. Not as a function, but as a political bat. It works because lack of investigation results in politics always winning. Not because you are right, but because it is opportunistic and that it follows the narrative.
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Posted from a device that has a lithium ion battery :)
 
SkodaMart said:
Has anyone ever calculated an electric car vs a fossil powered car?
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Yes, there are many Life-cycle assessment studies published on EV's vs ICE 'Cradle to grave'. The assessments from Volvo, Tesla and Polestar are probably the most talked about.
Generally speaking, in the UK, an EV overtakes ICE for footprint efficiency after 30k-50k miles. The key environmental benefit with EV's at this early stage is removing pollution from the areas where people live.

In terms of re-cycling, the metals in batteries are worth too much to be dumped into land fill. All of those you listed are being re-used. e.g. 12kg of lithium in the battery and 12kg of lithium gets re-cycled at the end of life.

I'm guessing you were not aware of the child mining issues before EV's came along, and have been happy using devices with lithium batteries for years without even worrying about the children :cry:. EV production has highlighted the issues to the world and is one of the sectors actively moving away from using cobalt in batteries. e.g. New Tesla's with LFP batteries

By the way - what does the mining life-cycle of extracting and transporting oil to be used in fuel look like ?! :p

Links to the EV impact assessments
Volvo : https://group.volvocars.com/news/sustainability/2020/~/media/ccs/Volvo_carbonfootprintreport.pdf
Polestar : https://www.polestar.com/dato-assets/11286/1600176185-20200915polestarlcafinala.pdf
Tesla : https://www.tesla.com/ns_videos/2020-tesla-impact-report.pdf
 
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It isnt as its easy, the 'artisan mining' colbalt is being used to take suplhur out of fuel every single time its refined and this has happened with an ignorant public. The irony isnt lost when people complain about all these 'toxic metals' that are not only locked in a metal box but also with the same narrative are hard to recycle.. ie they are safe compounds then. But the combustion of a liquid into a gas with an array of pollulates into the air is okay cos theres no box?

Its utterly moronic to just regurgitate stuff like you have. So EVs are driving a conversation with the general public about where our energy and materials are coming from? GOOD, that is a GOOD thing. Dont play ostrich.
 
I forgot about the cobalt use in fossil fuel production, it’s consumed isn’t it (aka can’t be re-used/recycled)? Interesting the resident oil lobby forgets to mention that one.

b0rn2sk8 said:
My cars battery doesn’t contain cobalt, do I win?
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I must being doing great on internet top trumps today for this post to age so well!

It’s got a lot of iron in it, how does that do in internet top trumps?
 
Jonnycoupe said:
Brace youself guys.

We have another lifecyle analysis environmentalist coming out of the closet today. The fabulous SkodaMart.
Fire up the FAQs and prepare for the cliches.
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It wasn’t so long ago that we where told diesel was cleaner than petrol.
We all knew that was a lie, yet the tax incentives replaced 50% of passenger cars with diesel powered vehicles.
 
SDK^ said:
Yes, there are many Life-cycle assessment studies published on EV's vs ICE 'Cradle to grave'. The assessments from Volvo, Tesla and Polestar are probably the most talked about.
Generally speaking, in the UK, an EV overtakes ICE for footprint efficiency after 30k-50k miles. The key environmental benefit with EV's at this early stage is removing pollution from the areas where people live.

In terms of re-cycling, the metals in batteries are worth too much to be dumped into land fill. All of those you listed are being re-used. e.g. 12kg of lithium in the battery and 12kg of lithium gets re-cycled at the end of life.

I'm guessing you were not aware of the child mining issues before EV's came along, and have been happy using devices with lithium batteries for years without even worrying about the children :cry:. EV production has highlighted the issues to the world and is one of the sectors actively moving away from using cobalt in batteries. e.g. New Tesla's with LFP batteries

By the way - what does the mining life-cycle of extracting and transporting oil to be used in fuel look like ?! :p

Links to the EV impact assessments
Volvo : https://group.volvocars.com/news/sustainability/2020/~/media/ccs/Volvo_carbonfootprintreport.pdf
Polestar : https://www.polestar.com/dato-assets/11286/1600176185-20200915polestarlcafinala.pdf
Tesla : https://www.tesla.com/ns_videos/2020-tesla-impact-report.pdf
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But now its getting way worse due to the massive increase in demand for batteries. Also most of the lithium does not get reused. A few lakes have been badly polluted by lithium mining as well.
 
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