When are you going fully electric?

mjt · 25 Jan 2022 at 13:45

throwaway4372 said:
yea but it's assuming they'll get run over without the noise - which obvs isn't true

I've snuck up on pedestrians unintentionally a few times in an EV. They're extremely quiet, especially for people who having hearing problems, such as the elderly.
Hell, I've been caught out by a Toyota Auris/Prius/whatever when walking in carparks. The sounds are 100% necessary.

throwaway4372 · 25 Jan 2022 at 13:51

mjt said:
I've snuck up on pedestrians unintentionally a few times in an EV. They're extremely quiet, especially for people who having hearing problems, such as the elderly.
Hell, I've been caught out by a Toyota Auris/Prius/whatever when walking in carparks. The sounds are 100% necessary.

This is exactly my point though. Those scenarios happen all the time, and nobody gets hurt, so adding sound was not necessary.

Russinating · 25 Jan 2022 at 13:55

m4rmite said:
Isn't it for blind pedestrians and mobile phone glued zombies?

So why aren't bicycles required to make a noise?

m4rmite · 25 Jan 2022 at 13:56

Driving from work through brum the "startled" pedestrians are 99% phone zombies, who think looking before crossing isn't important.

m4rmite · 25 Jan 2022 at 13:57

Russinating said:
So why aren't bicycles required to make a noise?

They legally have to have a bell fitted when bought new.

ps i take it back. google knows best

ICDP · 25 Jan 2022 at 13:57

Nobody is arguing it is right or wrong, just that it's the law.

mjt · 25 Jan 2022 at 14:00

throwaway4372 said:
This is exactly my point though. Those scenarios happen all the time, and nobody gets hurt, so adding sound was not necessary.

Do you have the statistics to show that not a single pedestrian has been ever injured by a car travelling at low speeds?

throwaway4372 · 25 Jan 2022 at 14:02

mjt said:
Do you have the statistics to show that no one has been ever injured by a car travelling at low speeds?

I'm not claiming that no one has ever been injured. Obviously some injuries will have occurred. I am saying that doesn't justify mandating the noise.

ICDP · 25 Jan 2022 at 14:20

I would say the person who didn't hear the silent EV coming might think differently.

I have an EV that was built prior to the law mandating low speed engine noise for all EVs. It is an E-Tron which is a very large EV and I have still had a few occassions when the car is so slow and silent that pedestirans don't notice. People walking in front of me in car parks, or small narrow streets with parked cars either side etc. These people generally rely on hearing a car rather than seeing it.

SDK^ · 25 Jan 2022 at 14:49

I get it happen all the time when I pickup my son from school. Most of the kids crossing the road don't look, relying on their ears, and as i'm pulling out of the car park they step out in front of my car, which is doing between 1-5mph.
I'm pretty much aware of the issue so am super careful not to run a child over.

danlightbulb · 25 Jan 2022 at 16:01

At the weekend I went to North Wales from where I live in the West Midlands. Its around a 120 mile trip. Now I wasn't camping this time because its winter, but we do in the summer. Lets say there is then some driving to be done in the area, getting some food, getting to and from the trail start points etc. Then the drive home at another 120 miles. That is a total trip of around 300 miles. And North Wales isn't even particularly far from where I live really, a 3 hr trip.

How is an electric car viable for this? How will it ever be?

I am genuinely worried about how these cars will be able to accommodate outdoor hobbies in the future.

FerretBoy · 25 Jan 2022 at 16:21

danlightbulb said:
At the weekend I went to North Wales from where I live in the West Midlands. Its around a 120 mile trip. Now I wasn't camping this time because its winter, but we do in the summer. Lets say there is then some driving to be done in the area, getting some food, getting to and from the trail start points etc. Then the drive home at another 120 miles. That is a total trip of around 300 miles. And North Wales isn't even particularly far from where I live really, a 3 hr trip.

How is an electric car viable for this? How will it ever be?

I am genuinely worried about how these cars will be able to accommodate outdoor hobbies in the future.

In the summer you might be able to get the 300miles, or find a moment to charge it for 10mins at a fast charger to be sure. Or charge at the campsite, or any town/village you visit whilst you shop.

danlightbulb · 25 Jan 2022 at 16:24

FerretBoy said:
In the summer you might be able to get the 300miles, or find a moment to charge it for 10mins at a fast charger to be sure. Or charge at the campsite, or any town/village you visit whilst you shop.

You really think the infrastructure is going to be there on basically a farmers field under the shadow of Tryfan? Or in small towns like Betws Y Coed where there isn't even a good public car park?

What about seaside towns like Aberdovey or Barmouth where you're lucky if there is even a working pay and display card machine, or on busy days you cant even get a car parking space - what then?

FerretBoy · 25 Jan 2022 at 16:29

danlightbulb said:
You really think the infrastructure is going to be there on basically a farmers field under the shadow of Tryfan? Or in small towns like Betws Y Coed where there isn't even a good public car park?

Honestly with ranges in the summer of 300+ miles, basically 6 hours of driving, I'm pretty sure you can find somewhere to add a little juice. If you have no choice then you will make it work.

Also the government will be offering grants for destination chargers come April, so those should increase greatly.

chanjy · 25 Jan 2022 at 16:30

danlightbulb said:
You really think the infrastructure is going to be there on basically a farmers field under the shadow of Tryfan? Or in small towns like Betws Y Coed where there isn't even a good public car park?

What about seaside towns like Aberdovey or Barmouth where you're lucky if there is even a working pay and display card machine, or on busy days you cant even get a car parking space - what then?

Then you charge en route

danlightbulb · 25 Jan 2022 at 16:32

chanjy said:
Then you charge en route

When charges are as fast as getting a petrol fill, then fine. Until then, its not viable.

squerble · 25 Jan 2022 at 16:34

danlightbulb said:
You really think the infrastructure is going to be there on basically a farmers field under the shadow of Tryfan? Or in small towns like Betws Y Coed where there isn't even a good public car park?

What about seaside towns like Aberdovey or Barmouth where you're lucky if there is even a working pay and display card machine, or on busy days you cant even get a car parking space - what then?

The smaller towns like these will lag behind, for sure. But the infrastructure will come.

Right now, you'll hit up some rapid chargers on the trip in/out just off the main road. 20 minutes boost would add all the "middle" mileage in your scenario and same for the way back. My Kona will do pushing 270 miles in summer or thereabouts, so it's only 30 miles off your scenario. All that would happen is on the way back home I'd go into a rapid charger for 20 minutes. That'd get me near to 80+% charge, which is about 215 miles, so would easily cover the 120 remaining trip home.

EDIT: As per your above comment, how on earth is a single 20 minute stop not viable?! You need to accept that things will need a slightly new mindset when we stop being so reliant on petrol.

b0rn2sk8 · 25 Jan 2022 at 16:35

Basically, anywhere where there is electricity, a car charger can be put in.

Chargers don’t even need to be particularly fast, even a 3 pin socket will do most of the time. Your car spends 90%+ of its life parked.

Ask yourself the question: What will they do if all the tourists stop coming because they can’t get there? Will they either whack in a few charge posts at about and charge people to use them or go out of business?

peige · 25 Jan 2022 at 16:38

danlightbulb said:
When charges are as fast as getting a petrol fill, then fine. Until then, its not viable.

Its different, that's all. You just have to get used to a different way of doing things. You set out everyday with a full charge and full range, if you need to top up you can rapid "splash and dash" and put another 100 miles in the same time as it takes to get a coffee and have a pee. The same argument in reverse is until you can fill your car with petrol at home overnight for same cost as charging my electric car I don't want one

For most people, most of the time a day range of 250miles is more than enough but I've seen videos from people covering a full days driving and doing a couple of top ups at the same time as needing a coffee and a break with no bother at all. It adds nothing more to your day. Plus all you need is a three pin socket overnight and you can push another 70 odd miles of range..

danlightbulb · 25 Jan 2022 at 16:38

squerble said:
EDIT: As per your above comment, how on earth is a single 20 minute stop not viable?! You need to accept that things will need a slightly new mindset when we stop being so reliant on petrol.

It won't be 20 minutes.

It takes 20 minutes to do the charge. BUt there will be a queue of people. Normal throughput in a petrol station is what, maybe 5 minutes per car with 6-10 pumps? So for the same throughput you'd need 30-40 charging stations at each location.

What happens when you arrive at your planned charging location to find all the stations full? You wait 10-20 minutes, no-one leaves. They are all inside drinking coffee or whatever. You wait another 20 minutes, queues are building up. No-one leaves. Its a recipe for a complete mess and massively delayed journeys. The independence that a tank of fuel gives you is completely destroyed.