When are you going fully electric?

I doubt it, most of these companies are burning through money to put the hardware in the ground at the moment.

It’s not a short term game, securing the grid capacity and optimal site locations is a multi decade investment.

First mover advantage is everything in that regard as no one wants to drive a mile off the trunk road to a retail park for a rapid charge if there is another site 50m off the road.

There have even been report of companies squatting on sites and grid capacity just to block competitors moving in near by.
 
Django x2 said:
Close to pulling buy on a Polestar 2. Just different to your usual dross. Yes I'll be constantly tracked by the Chinese, but meh, my phone probably does that anyway :D
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Having driven a Polestar 2 for about a week thanks to a family friend who has gone away and let me borrow his car while I look for a new one (sold the Tesla) I can say that it’s a really damn good car. I like it a lot more than the Model 3.
 
Spleen Sauce said:
Having driven a Polestar 2 for about a week thanks to a family friend who has gone away and let me borrow his car while I look for a new one (sold the Tesla) I can say that it’s a really damn good car. I like it a lot more than the Model 3.
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Ditto. I'm an unjustified Tesla hater, no real reason, just think they're toss. My move to electric was to allow the Germans (and Scandi's) to watch Tesla, identify and improve on all their mistakes, which they've done admirably. So now is the time, and the Polestar 2 looks the best of the bunch.
 
Django x2 said:
Close to pulling buy on a Polestar 2. Just different to your usual dross. Yes I'll be constantly tracked by the Chinese, but meh, my phone probably does that anyway :D
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Had my P2 two years now - no issues with it :)
Polestar as a company and brand are going places !

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The P2 is a very good car, the main reason I didn’t get it over the model 3 I have was the price at the time I purchased.

By the time you have added option packs, it was a lot more expensive. E.g. you needed a very expensive option pack to get some fairly basic stuff for a £45k car like traffic aware cruise control (the option pack had more stuff and was more expensive back then). With the price of the Model 3 shooting up, that isn’t the case anymore. If I was buying today, that decision may have been different.

The main negative thing people tend to say is that they are a bit cramped in the front. That may or may not be an issue for you.
 
b0rn2sk8 said:
The P2 is a very good car, the main reason I didn’t get it over the model 3 I have was the price at the time I purchased.

By the time you have added option packs, it was a lot more expensive. E.g. you needed a very expensive option pack to get some fairly basic stuff for a £45k car like traffic aware cruise control (the option pack had more stuff and was more expensive back then). With the price of the Model 3 shooting up, that isn’t the case anymore. If I was buying today, that decision may have been different.

The main negative thing people tend to say is that they are a bit cramped in the front. That may or may not be an issue for you.
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When I ordered my car it was the launch edition - so came with the Pilot & Plus packs. I added 20" wheels and it cost £50k. (Not including the £3k Gov Grant). At the time (Sept 20) the Tesa M3 was missing some stuff the Polestar came with as standard - like an electric boot, matrix lights (still not present), blind spot lights and some other stuff I can't remember (maybe heated rear seats was one of the things).

The same P2 dual motor, long range with the packs and 20" wheels now is £57k
The Tesla Model Y with 20" wheels is £60k
 
My model 3 is a newer SR and at the time of ordering the base PS2 was about the same price but once you added the Pilot pack and/or the plus pack to pick up some of the features that were missing and I wanted it got got quite a lot more expensive. The model 3 was also RWD, compared to the FWD PS2, had more real range and a lot more chargers available in useful places to me.

But times have changed and that’s what I meant though by that decision may not be the same now. The price creep on the Tesla is considerable compared to the Polestar. They also since cut down the pilot pack and made it a lot cheaper, I’m guessing due to parts availability.
 
Wasn't the main criticism of the P2 that the advertised range was nowhere near real world range?

Might be some very out of date knowledge of the P2 I have though, as it has been a while since I looked at or read about one! They might have sorted it all out :)
 
chanjy said:
Wasn't the main criticism of the P2 that the advertised range was nowhere near real world range?

Might be some very out of date knowledge of the P2 I have though, as it has been a while since I looked at or read about one! They might have sorted it all out :)
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Realistically the range on the dual motor long range version is about 230miles in summer and 200 miles in winter.
The newer cars come with a heat pump in one of the option packs so improves this a bit.
 
- could get the P2 single motor for better range (&50-70) - is the i 40 edrive still a lot more $$$ too.


The osprey charger price increase is interesting - at some growth point markets got to become like petrol where the KwH price difference between hubs/brands with same charge rate is reduced,
P stations rely on the profits from the shops to keep them afloat, too, hubs can be more bare bones without continual personnel overhead
 
Simon said:
Surely the charging time means shops make more sense
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It does, but they tend to be installed at places with existing amenities (service/filling stations, retail parts, hotels etc.) the exceptions are the two Grisdserve hubs which are purpose built and have a shop and costa.
 
Wont need to worry about charging time soon

www.youtube.com

We Speed Tested The World's FASTEST Electric Car Charger!

What if a charge stop could be as quick as stopping for petrol? It may not be a pipe dream - in fact, the latest chargers coming out of China suggest that th...
www.youtube.com www.youtube.com

At this rate of progress will be faster than ICE soon and we will be back to having to spend more time waiting for the bloke in front to select his bag of crisps and soft drink in the shop than it takes to fuel up

Fox should be happy
 
Ironically 11mins is too long and I skimmed the comments. Is there a summary


Ok so it’s 3C and will become 6C. Is there a mention of battery size rather than just time from 10-80%?
 
Seems BMW have some brand plans on the battery and BEV front starting in 2025/6.

"BMW has announced details of its next-generation lithium ion batteries for EVs, named Gen6.​
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Due to arrive in the Neue Klasse (New Class) series of cars from 2025, the batteries adopt a cylindrical cell shape – as favoured by Tesla - rather than the flat, prismatic cell shape currently used. ​
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Thomas Albrecht, BMW’s head of Efficient Dynamics, told Autocar: “Gen6 batteries will give us 30% or more range than our current Gen5, but we won’t go over 1000km [620 miles] of range, even though we can. We don’t think that such a long range is necessary.” ​
DC rapid-charging time is also set to be improved by up to 30%, meaning the Gen6 era of BMWs will be able to support ultra-rapid charging of around 270kW – on a par with the Porsche Taycan.​
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It’s also estimated that the Gen6 battery packs could weigh some 10-20% less than the existing Gen5 batteries, which weigh roughly 300kg for a mid-range pack. ​
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The forthcoming Gen6 cylindrical cells use a unique BMW chemistry. They measure 46mm in diameter and either 95mm or 120mm in height. Using less cobalt but more nickel, they will be sourced from Chinese battery manufacturers CATL and EV, and are ultimately an evolution of the conventional lithium ion chemistry that's common to today’s EVs. ​
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The change in cell shape has also brought about a new battery-pack design that's slimmer and allows for a more versatile ‘pack-to-open-body’ installation process, whereby the battery essentially becomes an integral part of the car’s structure."​

So a structural pack in a 46-95 or 46-120 format, as opposed to the 46-80 that Tesla are moving to, a note on the longevity as well.

“Legislation is coming in to further guarantee battery life. For instance, the US will require a minimum 80% battery performance after 10 years. We're performing better than that.”​
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Interesting they are looking at up to 620 miles of range, that would be a pretty big pack still if the efficiency of the car(s) remain the same ~4mpkWh, 155kWh to achieve 620 miles. The weight saving will offset some of the bulk, but unless the cost per kWh comes down a lot in the next 5 years, then its going to be on very, very expensive cars only.
 
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