When are you going fully electric?

[b0rn2sk8]

0% PCP for a new Model 3 currently. You can buy a car from inventory. Offers ends 31st Aug or when the cars run out.

No conformation from Tesla but the speculation is that a refresh will happen at the end of the year so they are clearing cars from the supply.

The Fremont and china factories are currently shut down for upgrades.

It’s fair to say that it’s more than speculation now and the refresh will land in the here in November/December once all the current cars have been cleared out.

Going okay so far. Le Shuttle was empty so ideal to charge before boarding.

Nice parking It looks like the other chargers are still not commissioned yet?

That said they’ll be more expensive than the tesla ones so there would be no reason to use them if a supercharger was available and you had the time. The peak charging speed should be quicker than those ancient superchargers, particularly on a 800v car.

 

[rG-tom]

The problem with that approach, and any purchase model that includes using the car as collateral, is that now you have to find a new deposit for its replacement. Or take out a new loan to do the same again.

To be clear I’m not disagreeing with this method, it works just as you say. My point is that regardless of the way you end up in that car, it is an endless cycle of costs. So when someone says “at least I own my car”, they are ignoring this endless cycle. They could be conceivably paying more to “own” a 2 or 3 year old used ICE car until it is 8 - 10 years old, then do the same all over again. Sometimes an all inclusive lease could be a better option.

So as per the video posted earlier, you need to look at your monthly budget and see what method works out the cheapest. Owning or leasing is the same thing when it’s a depreciating object that has a limited lifespan.

For example, when I did the actual cost per month on a friends £6k runabouts they keep for about 5 years, or until they become beyond economic repair. It worked out they were paying almost £200 per month when depreciation, insurance, tax, maintenance and servicing costs were factored in. That’s before they factored in their £100 per month fuel costs.

I showed them a lease deal (not salary sacrifice), that would get them a new entry level Corsa sized EV with maintenance included. It was about £300 per month when we added insurance but as I pointed out the refuelling costs would make it roughly £70 per month cheaper to run than their now 8 year old Ford Focus.

So all in yes it was around £40 per month more expensive, but they would be in a new car instead of an 8 year old rattly, noisy and smelly petrol that has seemingly endless mechanical issues.

Sorry for the long post.

Any time I've modelled this, the car is worth significantly more than the outstanding loan, so assuming you keep buying the same value of far each time you have a bigger and bigger deposit for the next purchase until eventually you don't need a loan anymore.

You also seem to have fixated on 6 years. I have only ever talked about selling after 3 years.

My example is talking about 2-3 year old premium ish cars, not 6k 8 year old "smelly" cars ..I find that end of the market can be the worst because they need more repairs and often are no longer easy to sell at the end. A 2 year old car is still quite desirable to many at 5 years old.

My discussion is against PCP and normal leasing, in the right circumstances a salary sacrifice lease absolutely makes sense.

Personal ones, bar the golf r type mega deals, yet to see itm

 

[ICDP]

I was specifically referring to the fact that all forms of car purchasing models are a continual cost and you basically need to pick the model that works out best for you. You can’t generalise that it’s always best to “I own my car”, because all you own is a different way to help finance your next car.

 

[rG-tom]

I have never said that, or even listed that as a benefit.

My consideration is only ever financial, and total cost over the desired period (ie three years). I jumped in because someone said "lol but a loan would be twice as much per month", which is fairly irrelevant as you can tweak length of loan to suit and the only number that matters is "how much did having the use of this car cost me over X years, including interest depreciation etc etc"

if I could've got an insane deal on leasing my car that made it cheaper than to own, believe me I would do it.

 

[ICDP]

I have never said that, or even listed that as a benefit.

My consideration is only ever financial, and total cost over the desired period (ie three years). I jumped in because someone said "lol but a loan would be twice as much per month", which is fairly irrelevant as you can tweak length of loan to suit and the only number that matters is "how much did having the use of this car cost me over X years, including interest depreciation etc etc"

if I could've got an insane deal on leasing my car that made it cheaper than to own, believe me I would do it.

I know what you said and wasn't disagreeing or saying it was wrong. I was simply offereing a caveat that what works for you (or me), may not work for others. Hence my advice to look at the overall financial impact and work to "your" specific budget comparing all potential purchase options. And do not fall into the "I must own my own car" fallacy because a car is a finite resource with a perpetual cycle of costs regardless of if you own it or lease it. All that matters is how much it costs for you to be in that car, leased or owned.

 

[SDK^]

I have never said that, or even listed that as a benefit.

My consideration is only ever financial, and total cost over the desired period (ie three years). I jumped in because someone said "lol but a loan would be twice as much per month", which is fairly irrelevant as you can tweak length of loan to suit and the only number that matters is "how much did having the use of this car cost me over X years, including interest depreciation etc etc"

if I could've got an insane deal on leasing my car that made it cheaper than to own, believe me I would do it.

The options are basically

• Pay a high monthly cost over a short period.
• Pay a lower monthly cost over a longer period.
• Pay low cost over short period with a large end final payment.

There is no right 'answer' - people choose what suits them

This started because I gave one example of the above,. of course other examples exist

 

[Jonnycoupe]

Nice parking It looks like the other chargers are still not commissioned yet?

That said they’ll be more expensive than the tesla ones so there would be no reason to use them if a supercharger was available and you had the time. The peak charging speed should be quicker than those ancient superchargers, particularly on a 800v car.

Yes was glad I could park like that as a courteous Jagwar driver

Yeah still fenced off which was a suprise. The prices of supercharging in France is comedy cheap with membership. 0.32 Euro cent/kWh.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Yup it’s great over there. As much as Tesla cars are not for everyone, they are absolutely killing it with their charging network right now.

The new ‘proper’ V4 chargers (rather than the new stall design on the old V3 cabinet) have also now been confirmed at 350kw in a recent U.K. planning application. Longer cables and contactless payment, what’s not to like for anyone who drives a BEV.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

Decent location in Switzerland as we travelled through to Italy, not sure about the sun loungers under the power lines mind, apparently the lake is a popular fresh water swimming site.

Next step was planned at a Tesla supercharger nr Milan as 18 of the 20 were free however on arrival the site had lost connection resulting it wasn’t possible to start with the app. Had to detour to another Ionity.

 

[Sin_Chase]

Did my first DC Fast charging in France with Ionity recently. I dont DCFC enough to warrant a network subscription so the free FordPass network access suited me and gave plug and charge with Ionity.

37 to 82% in 28 minutes on my 98kWh Mach-E was pleasant enough. Car was good to go to finish the journey long before we had finished toilet breaks and snacks with the kid!

My experience was overall positive for the enitre trip and tempered the small amount of range anxiety I had left. Free destination charging at our hotel was a nice bonus!

What I did discover is thay whilst ABRP is a great route planner for the best part its VERY unreliable as a route guidance tool. Found it just completely gave up route guidance if you went off route for more than 20 seconds or so and wouldnt recalculate instead clearing your route entirely. I ended up exporting my ABRP routes to Google Maps and using that in Android Auto.

 

[chanjy]

Did my first DC Fast charging in France with Ionity recently. I dont DCFC enough to warrant a network subscription so the free FordPass network access suited me and gave plug and charge with Ionity.

37 to 82% in 28 minutes on my 98kWh Mach-E was pleasant enough. Car was good to go to finish the journey long before we had finished toilet breaks and snacks with the kid!

My experience was overall positive for the enitre trip and tempered the small amount of range anxiety I had left. Free destination charging at our hotel was a nice bonus!

What I did discover is thay whilst ABRP is a great route planner for the best part its VERY unreliable as a route guidance tool. Found it just completely gave up route guidance if you went off route for more than 20 seconds or so and wouldnt recalculate instead clearing your route entirely. I ended up exporting my ABRP routes to Google Maps and using that in Android Auto.

Oh yeah ABRP for the nav part is a no no, just use it for planning and do the route in Gmaps or Waze

 

[Greebo]

High UK inflation too, in conjunction with improved supply, is gong to reduce the residual value in 3 years too, which could be favourable to the leasing option
(but the leasing company will have figured that in)

Don't know what the waiting time is for new EV's now but the risk of addtional battery import taxes come 2024, is looming, for a non-UK car.

Leasing rates are mad at the moment. Priced up the new 2024 model VW Touareg R hybrid and it came out at £1200 per month. We got the 2022 model (ordered in 2021) for £680 per month.

 

[Uther]

Why do manufacturers put the charging port is so many different places? I could see that being awkward at public charge points.
I quite like the way cars like the Kia have them at the front, but can also see the downsides of that if you have a bump.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

The worst place is on the front wheel arch, behind the front wheel. The way some charge stations are designed it means dragging the cable around or across your car to reach the socket.

The best place is on the back corner IMO. It’s generally better to reverse park anyway and the charge port is nice and accessible.

 

[Uther]

The worst place is on the front wheel arch, behind the front wheel. The way some charge stations are designed it means dragging the cable around or across your car to reach the socket.

I was looking at the new Megane e-tech, a car I like a lot, but yes, that's exactly where the charge port is.

 

[sandys]

Nah on the rear is not amazing, filling the boot with shopping, wheelchairs etc is a little annoying with charging machine and cable in the way, nose fill seems optimal to me shame to one really does it.

Typically on the front you don't restrict access to anything.

Yup on the side wheel arch is not great, mine does that and it limits the space between cars parked up when coming between them with a load for example on my drive, basically anything protruding out the side of a car anywhere is bad but at least in a bay on the front side you can still access rear nicely at a station.

 

[jpaul]

Isn't some of it down to front/rear wheel drive ev - you want the charger close to the place where cables from the batteries are combined&routed to invertor/motor;
(and with the 800v design they use the invertor in charging circuit) ... so P=I^2R

e: V 101 explanation I^2R of primary concern are the power losses/joule heating in the cables so you want to make them short which obviously reduces weight/cost
to wit - didn't the latest audi ppe q8? have plugs on both sides

 

[Simon]

Less complicated than that. Copper is expensive and heavy

 

[silversurfer]

Is the Volvo EV any good, hybrid I think

Out of 26 million cars, around 37,500 are EV

Think I saw its over a million now.

Which brand charger do people have at home, wondering which is best. Octopus offer to install one and give a nicer tariff otherwise I've only read about Indra

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Which brand charger do people have at home, wondering which is best. Octopus offer to install one and give a nicer tariff otherwise I've only read about Indra

EV chargers are a much of a muchness, they all have to meet the same regs.

I would just install which ever had the style you are happy with and features you want for a price you are willing to pay.

The core features really just boil down to:
Does it have a cable permanently attached aka 'tethered' - I'd personally recommend tethered.
Do you need it need to work with solar or tie into other energy eco system devices you may have or are looking to install.