When are you going fully electric?

[tonys]

If you're just replacing the battery. More likely you're replacing modules and thats a bit of work. Even the Tesla's is a lot of labour to get the adhesive off and put it back on. That's before you get into diagnostics of what's wrong with the battery. BMS or whatever.

For sure not like doing an engine but it's not nothing either.

That said it's vastly more common to be swapping an engine than a battery. But I've never had to do engine swap in decades of driving. But a battery swap will be far rarer.

But even regular modern stuff like a EGF or DPF was a tonne of work as they made them virtually inaccessible on some cars.

With the hassle of the Tesla battery it would probably more cost effective to buy a new one( if you could actually buy one). Depending on cost you may have to buy another car, this is something government and manufacturers need to sort out if they want to get people to buy EV'S

 

[Simon]

With the hassle of the Tesla battery it would probably more cost effective to buy a new one( if you could actually buy one). Depending on cost you may have to buy another car, this is something government and manufacturers need to sort out if they want to get people to buy EV'S

Wait. The penny has dropped ?

 

[tonys]

Wait. The penny has dropped ?

That's just one example, no different to an ICE car that can only be repaired or replaced at great cost. Grow up

 

[Simon]

That's just one example, no different to an ICE car that can only be repaired or replaced at great cost. Grow up

I think you are arguing with yourself now to be honest.

 

[tonys]

I think you are arguing with yourself now to be honest.

No, I may talk to myself but never argue

 

[OspreyO]

With the hassle of the Tesla battery it would probably more cost effective to buy a new one( if you could actually buy one). Depending on cost you may have to buy another car, this is something government and manufacturers need to sort out if they want to get people to buy EV'S

Tesla remanufacture used batteries and fit them to warranty repairs.

If you're out warranty though it's very expensive which is why people try fixing them. Kinda obvious no...

 

[tonys]

Tesla remanufacture used batteries and fit them to warranty repairs.

If you're out warranty though it's very expensive which is why people try fixing them..

And you have the same attitude to an ICE engine, if it goes bang out of warranty they will have to either repair or replace so no difference really. Cost is the factor but this will have to change as we head towards Net Zero surely?

 

[OspreyO]

And you have the same attitude to an ICE engine, if it goes bang out of warranty they will have to either repair or replace so no difference really. Cost is the factor but this will have to change as we head towards Net Zero surely?

Let us know when that happens.

 

[bigmike20vt]

eBay, brilliant, good luck finding someone who will actually fit that. Swapping engines is bad enough.

Google mechanics out in force today

easy tiger!.
it was me who mentioned Ebay..... and it was only because Simon literally asked where can you buy a battery pulled from another car.
I also followed it up with the fact it isn't something I would attempt and in all likelihood if my battery fails when the car is out of warranty, and it needed a complete replacement I would probably replace the car.
personally I wouldn't buy a 2nd hand GPU from eBay..... so not likely to buy a battery either but plenty do.
speaking as an EV customer not a mechanic however , battery repair or replacement is a valid concern . I think it is fair to assume that if EVs are to take off , there is going to have to be some sensible way for punters to be able to replace a few faulty cells in a battery in an older car at a garage.
there is a shortage of skilled people with the tools to do it right now (possible career options for young people?) and maybe right now it is not so apparent as cars are mostly still under battery warranty and EV owners are still a minority.
I also think car manufacturers need to be pressured to make them as accessible as possible.
none of this is a show stopper for me buying an EV, in reality I think it's unlikely to be a problem for most cars. Also many of the issues with repairing new cars are on ICE cars as well.
(how much would a new engine cost in your F type ? and if it was 10 years old would it be financially viable or a labour of love?
as I have lamented before even a new headlight may write off some cars of today in a decade or so. the wiring loom is also quite an expensive repair job .

 

[Simon]

The thing with engines (my M3 engine is also expensive) is that you can see what’s wrong with them. Any usually it’s only some of the parts that go.

Anyway this thread is rather speculative at best. There are little to no battery refurbishing companies out there really. The OEMs usually just replace the module that’s broke. The rest of the battery still aged.

Let’s see what happens but this all stemmed from the impact of perceived battery life/cost versus second hand cars. @tonys why don’t you have an ev yet if they are so easy to fix ? Words are cheap

 

[tonys]

The thing with engines (my M3 engine is also expensive) is that you can see what’s wrong with them. Any usually it’s only some of the parts that go.

Anyway this thread is rather speculative at best. There are little to no battery refurbishing companies out there really. The OEMs usually just replace the module that’s broke. The rest of the battery still aged.

Let’s see what happens but this all stemmed from the impact of perceived battery life/cost versus second hand cars. @tonys why don’t you have an ev yet if they are so easy to fix ? Words are cheap

I can't afford to get one(took early retirement, so limited cash, also the wife doesn't see them or solar panels as affordable for us), even though for my major use they would be ideal. I don't think you have to have something to comment on it.

There aren't many refurbishments going on as yet because there isn't a demand
Yes words are cheap, keeping a car going can be expensive regardless of their motive power.

 

[OspreyO]

What if the engine fails in your 15yr old fiesta. Will you be replacing it, or just replacing the whole car.. How many people are going to take on replacing the engine in 15yr old fiesta.

Because that's really the argument.

As for low availability of used batteries and modules because not enough have failed to make it supporting it viable for those who can do it. Or they can't compete on price with people who cut corners. The are problems that will be resolved in time. Its a 10yr old industry Vs a 100yr old one.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Let’s move on and change of topic because this is rather circular.

Here’s the latest on Musks ‘boneheaded’ decision to sack the whole supercharger team.

Read the wild email Tesla is sending to suppliers amid Supercharger chaos

After firing its Supercharger team, Tesla is unsurprisingly finding it hard to manage contractors who previously worked with the team.

electrek.co

The TLDR is they are asking their suppliers for ‘patience’ while they arrange for them to be paid for their work. Utterly ridiculous.

Allegedly he fired the whole business unit, including the leading executive because they wouldn’t accept the headcount reduction being imposed on them because they were critical to the future of the company. Musk didn’t like it so fired the whole business unit and the executive to make an example of them.

Literally cutting your nose off to spite your face. This whole thing which could prove to be one of the biggest missteps of his tenure at Tesla. He has potentially inflicted damage that could get them back years.

 

[Simon]

What if the engine fails in your 15yr old fiesta. Will you be replacing it, or just replacing the whole car.. How many people are going to take on replacing the engine in 15yr old fiesta.

Because that's really the argument.

As for low availability of used batteries and modules because not enough have failed to make it supporting it viable for those who can do it. Or they can't compete on price with people who cut corners. The are problems that will be resolved in time. Its a 10yr old industry Vs a 100yr old one.

Mainstream engines are cheap. The fact a 575hp engine was picked out as some sort of reference was a bit odd

 

[OspreyO]

The issue will be if it becomes an issue that you can't get an out of warranty battery that fails completely repaired (even rarer than losing range). It will demolish used prices and eventually collapse new car prices. So the manufacturers will be forced to deal with it.

At some point the manufacturers will be forced to guarantee a supply line of batteries and parts for X number of years, and there will a regulation on repairers.

 

[OspreyO]

Mainstream engines are cheap. The fact a 575hp engine was picked out as some sort of reference was a bit odd

Labour isn't.

This thread is all about fringe cases.

 

[Simon]

Let’s move on and change of topic because this is rather circular.

Here’s the latest on Musks ‘boneheaded’ decision to sack the whole supercharger team.

Read the wild email Tesla is sending to suppliers amid Supercharger chaos

After firing its Supercharger team, Tesla is unsurprisingly finding it hard to manage contractors who previously worked with the team.

electrek.co

The TLDR is they are asking their suppliers for ‘patience’ while they arrange for them to be paid for their work. Utterly ridiculous.

Allegedly he fired the whole business unit, including the leading executive because they wouldn’t accept the headcount reduction being imposed on them because they were critical to the future of the company. Musk didn’t like it so fired the whole business unit and the executive to make an example of them.

Literally cutting your nose off to spite your face. This whole thing which could prove to be one of the biggest missteps of his tenure at Tesla. He has potentially inflicted damage that could get them back years.

I see the ‘big bad oil companies’ are now planning to buy the hardware. I think the charger cost is the killer at the moment for public. The guys with hardware have a massive waiting list and can charge what they want. This is the passed on as the provider looks to make a return.

Public charging has also declined with the increase of home and destination charging. Maybe Tesla have enough superchargers? Or just a high wage bill and they will replace the lot with lower paid.

Interesting how it works out

 

[Simon]

Labour isn't.

This thread is all about fringe cases.

It really isn’t on EV examples. But agree with born. This argument, unlike EVs, is rather circular

 

[OspreyO]

Let’s move on and change of topic because this is rather circular.

Here’s the latest on Musks ‘boneheaded’ decision to sack the whole supercharger team.

Read the wild email Tesla is sending to suppliers amid Supercharger chaos

After firing its Supercharger team, Tesla is unsurprisingly finding it hard to manage contractors who previously worked with the team.

electrek.co

The TLDR is they are asking their suppliers for ‘patience’ while they arrange for them to be paid for their work. Utterly ridiculous.

Allegedly he fired the whole business unit, including the leading executive because they wouldn’t accept the headcount reduction being imposed on them because they were critical to the future of the company. Musk didn’t like it so fired the whole business unit and the executive to make an example of them.

Literally cutting your nose off to spite your face. This whole thing which could prove to be one of the biggest missteps of his tenure at Tesla. He has potentially inflicted damage that could get them back years.

I think it's also another cost cutting move. He did similar with Twitter. To sell Tesla's it needed a charging infrastructure. Which they created. Incredible achievement. However there are other players creating infrastructure now it's not as critical as it was. Though the Tesla superchargers are a huge value added for a new Tesla buyer. He's playing with fire risking that. He risks savaging new sales.

That said if it all fails tomorrow it doesn't really effect him personally. He'll only be slightly less rich. So he's quite happy to play Russian roulette to get his way.

 

[OspreyO]

It really isn’t on EV examples. But agree with born. This argument, unlike EVs, is rather circular

I was referring to ICE engine swaps. Well you've kept it going engaging with "Google mechanics" as you put it. So you've only yourself to blame on that one.