When will the censorship of anything criticising immigration stop?

[Patient Keeper]

It's not just in the UK, but throughout Europe.

For example, in August 2010 the German government condemns a book as 'racist', as it states that muslims immigrant from Turkey do not want to integrate: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11131937

Yet, only 1 month later, during a football match involving Germany and Turkey, played in Berlin, the stadium is full of Turkish muslims that boos drown out any noise whenever Mesut Özil (a third-generation Turkish immigrant now playing for Germany) touches the ball:

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2010/10/22/germanys_age_of_anxiety_0

Go and watch the highlights on youtube for proof. Sort of backs the author's claims up doesnt it?

Why do government constantly dismiss any fears over immigration?

 

[Patient Keeper]

It's because it has been forced on us rather than gradually excepted. Now they are in that sticky situation like a plane goes in. Too fast to stop now, but not fast enough to take off. There are too many immigrants now for there to be sudden outrage and talks on immigration wihtout a potential of civil war, but people attitudes are still not accepting enough to ignore difference in race/culture/accent (whatever minor difference immigration brings to a country). Give it a century and people won't even remember there being a problem with immigration.

There's a possibility that there won't be much of the native populations left to express the problem, almost kind of like now, except the Government won't need to supress it.

 

[Patient Keeper]

Wait you're saying Turks boo'd a German player when the Germans were playing Turkey?

Good lord!


Football fans booing the other teams players in an international game?

What has the world come to.

You'd have never had this back in the old days, beatings and murders sure but booing?

Never.

First of all, this match is being playing in Berlin, deafening boos for home team players is certainly not something you see very often (if ever, maybe the last time in this country was Beckham when he was sent off in 1998?).

Secondly, they are singling out one player and booing him, a player that has broken the norm, and is third-generation immigrant from Turkey but playing for Germany. If they think of a third generation immigrant as some sort of traitor then really what do you expect their general views on integration to be?

 

[Patient Keeper]

Fixed that for you.

OK then, I don't have a problem with calling him German, after all I thought he was at first. So explain to me why the Turkish immigrants that have filled the stadium are singling out him, and not any other Germans?

 

[Patient Keeper]

How do you know their immigrants?

A second ago they where Turkish Muslims, you know it's quite common for people to follow their national teams.

in which case they're Turkish people on holiday in Germany.

Not immigrants.

I think it is not that much of a secret that Berlin has a huge number of Turkish immigrants. Again, why have they chosen to single out that player?

 

[Patient Keeper]

Are you going to answer why they were singling out one player?

Trying to claim that all those boos were just 'turkish on holiday' in the away section of a football stadium is ludicrous. Show me another time when Turkey have played another away game and brought with them that much support?

Also, even if you are again going to claim that there are 'no immigrants', why are they singling out that player? What does that tell you about general Turkish view on immigration into another country?

 

[Patient Keeper]

When ignorant racists stop hijacking the immigration debate to try and make their views presentable, at a guess...

Or perhaps it is people like you who hijack and nitpick at any views that are anti-immigration and attempt to turn any arguments into 'racist' ones.

 

[Patient Keeper]

Why bring religion into an immigration discussion then? Does it matter than turks are immigrating to germany, or is the problem just that they're muslim?

It matters because quite clearly the majority don't want to integrate, even going so far as chastising the few that do and have integrated.

 

[Patient Keeper]

It always amuses me that the rank of the posters who typically start these threads is "thug".

I have a 1st class degree in Mechanical Engineering from Edinburgh, and an MPhil in Energy Technologies from Cambridge. I am not a 'thug'.

 

[Patient Keeper]

What's the religion got to do with it?
Some turks criticising a guy of turkish descent playing for Germany?
The same happens with all the kiwi rugby players who play for England, Ireland, Scotland or Wales. Why wouldn't it, there's not much more parochial than national football, what has religion or integration got to do with it? Stop being an idiot.

They're no less likely to integrate than non muslim turks. Think about the polish, caribbean, bangladeshi etc communities in the UK, it's their nationality that draws them together, not their religion. Why do you think muslims are different?

Whether you like it or not, religion has historically shaped culture. I think you will find that Danish and Swedish culture are very closely aligned. The same way that much of the Middle East is closely aligned.

 

[Patient Keeper]

what are you talking about? religion still has nothing to do with immigration. Immigration involves someone of a nationality moving to another country. Where's the religion involved in that. It's only use in the example you've given is to try and get "anti-muslims" on side.

Right, and still the point is that these immigrants on the whole don't want to integrate. I don't see why you are nitpicking at whether what I've said is politically correct rather than focusing on the overwhelming point that was made.

Still, religion HAS shaped culture, and generally it is immigrants' refusal to integrate into their new country's culture that causes problems. It doesn't matter if the immigrants are religious are not, if they have a completely different culture and don't want to integrate it causes problems.

 

[Patient Keeper]

How would you feel if Canadians said no room for British over there?

If you want to play the nit-picking game, then why are you using British-Muslim, and British-Canadian as similar terms? One is a nationality one is a religion?

 

[Patient Keeper]

He didn't use either of those terms

He is comparing his use of British-Muslims to a Canadians use of British-Canadians. He quite clearly did.

 

[Patient Keeper]

How do you not get it? It's not to do with whether it's politically correct...
It's just whether it's correct or not.
Do you have a problem with immigration, turks immigrating to germany, or do you have a problem with muslims? they are distinct things, you're trying to convey the former, but it's obvious you mean the latter from all your posts.

As I said ages ago there is no censorship of immigration concerns in this country, it was one of the focal points of the election, getting the majority of one of the 3 debates devoted to it. But immigration is immigration, it has nothing to do with religion, the word muslim is never relevant in a discussion on immigration.

I have a problem with almost all immigration, infact the only immigration I don't have a problem with is for skilled workers, and yet that is the only thing the Government seems to want to control. To say there is no censorship of immigration concerns is outrageous, we didn't have a debate about immigration during the election, that TV 'debate' addressed none of the immigration concerns and conveniently skipped out huge holes such as the EU immigration.

It doesn't matter what religion they are, the problem is when immigrants have a completely different culture (which inevitably has been shaped by religion), and refuse to integrate, this is what causes problems.

 

[Patient Keeper]

It is, islam is a race, see definitions above... Your statement is quite openly racist.

really? you speak for most of the UK do you? because 99% of the people I know are either welcoming (probably 5%) and the rest just couldn't give a fig, they're more intelligent than to be bothered by someone elses religion, or to tar everyone within a group with the same brush. By your own logic I guess I'm right in assuming you're a skinhead moronic neo-nazi who posts on stormfront and thinks that white is right? Probably given half a chance would give a muslim a kicking for being a muslim too, yeah?

Islam is now a race?

 

[Patient Keeper]

He didn't, the last part of the quoted post said he didn't want muslims in this country, so the comparision is to canadians not wanting brits in theirs. It's nothing to do with terminoligy, just retarded irrational hatred.

One is a religion, one is a nationality.

 

[Patient Keeper]

OK then, how about if Canadians said they didn't want Christians in there, improbable though that is.

So that just highlights the complete flaw in your argument? They are improbable to say and you know it, because the culture is very much aligned. Muslim culture (where the person is still religous or not) is not aligned.

 

[Patient Keeper]

I didn't say it was a great comparision. Just that it wasn't one of semantics which you were trying to say it was.

I actually agree with you that it's retarded to want British people out of Britain no matter what their religion, that is what you meant isn't it?

Yes, but it isn't retarded to want people out of Britain that don't want to integrate with British Culture.

 

[Patient Keeper]

But they are British, surely their culture, whatever that may be, is British culture. What is this mystical British culture that everyone has to integrate with? Provide some examples please

All hope is lost, now we have no culture? I'm not going to try to define it, that is just ridiculous. Does any of Europe have a culture? So the Carribean has no culture of its own? Japan has no culture of its own? Saudi Arabia has no culture of its own?

 

[Patient Keeper]

Only through decades of invasion and progression
The only reason christianity is predominant in Canada is because of immigration...

Not that I agree with what happened there, but surely that tells you something. The only reason traditional 'christian' culture is now dominant is through immigration... I await the day when 'christian' culture is now no longer existant in europe, due to immigration.