where does the learner driver stand.

MikeHiow · 3 Oct 2011 at 23:06

I understand PMKeates point of view, and it's all very well and valid, but then I guess that depends on how bad the wheel was.

Given the car was not technically road worthy (despite the damaged wheel, a flat spare is an MOT failure!), the OP should have the option of a refund in the event he did not want to take the test with the same instructor again.

That said, this is only going to delay you passing your test IMO - I'd take their offer as it puts you in the position you were in before financially.

Fr0dders · 3 Oct 2011 at 23:07

Kerming said:
PM I agree, but I am still down £62.

forget the lesson, that wasn't a lesson, we were they for like 20mins tops. so forget it.

You still have to pay for somebody to drive you to and from the test centre, and you pay for their time while they sit around waiting for you to come back from the test.

They could be with other paying customers during this time.

PMKeates · 3 Oct 2011 at 23:08

Kerming said:
PM I agree, but I am still down £62.

forget the lesson, that wasn't a lesson, we were they for like 20mins tops. so forget it.

You are not seeing it clearly. Whether the first part was 0 minutes or a thousand years it doesn't matter; you weren't charged. If you take her offer you are going to pay £102 and have had a failed test and a real test. If you had not had this problem you would have paid £102 for a real test.

You are absolutely NOT AT ALL IN ANY WAY down on money. You are in exactly the same net financial position.

Fr0dders · 3 Oct 2011 at 23:08

MikeHiow said:
a flat spare is an MOT failure!

No. No its not.

The spare tyre is not examined as part of the MOT.

Given the OP didn't spot, and neither did the instructor, and having come across jobsworth examiners in my time, i'm inclined to believe the driving schools story that it was all a fuss about nothing.

MikeHiow · 3 Oct 2011 at 23:12

MrLOL said:
No. No its not.

The spare tyre is not examined as part of the MOT.

Given the OP didn't spot, and neither did the instructor, and having come across jobsworth examiners in my time, i'm inclined to believe the driving schools story that it was all a fuss about nothing.

My mistake. I've always been told the spare isn't a requirement but if present it has to be legal - I've never even thought to question it to be honest.

Kerming · 3 Oct 2011 at 23:12

PMKeates said:
You are absolutely NOT AT ALL IN ANY WAY down on money. You are in exactly the same net financial position.

apart from i had to pay 62 quid for a retest cos she messed up.

PMKeates · 3 Oct 2011 at 23:13

Kerming said:
apart from i had to pay 62 quid for a retest cos she messed up.

The net result is all that matters. You will be in the same net position.

Whatever happens, you have to pay £62 for a test and £40 for her time. This equals £102.

In your situation, you have paid £62 for a test, then £62 for a test. This equals £124. She is then not charging you for her time and GIVING YOU £22, which equals £102.

Last time I checked, 102 = 102.

MikeHiow · 3 Oct 2011 at 23:13

Kerming said:
apart from i had to pay 62 quid for a retest cos she messed up.

But with her not charging you for her time on either the original or the retest, plus the money she is refunding you, you are in exactly the same financial position as you would have been if you'd taken the test successfully the first time.

Just to reiterate that - If you accept her offer, you will have spent the same amount of money on two tests (+ her refund) as you would have on just one test and her time for the test (without refund). It's not that difficult.

PMKeates has broken it down for you perfectly above.

Fr0dders · 3 Oct 2011 at 23:14

MikeHiow said:
My mistake. I've always been told the spare isn't a requirement but if present it has to be legal - I've never even thought to question it to be honest.

Its come up before.

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18122227&highlight=MOT+spare+tyre

Amoeba · 3 Oct 2011 at 23:14

PMKeates said:
You are not seeing it clearly. Whether the first part was 0 minutes or a thousand years it doesn't matter; you weren't charged. If you take her offer you are going to pay £102 and have had a failed test and a real test. If you had not had this problem you would have paid £102 for a real test.

You are absolutely NOT AT ALL IN ANY WAY down on money. You are in exactly the same net financial position.

Only if

a) He takes his test again in the near future -- he has his booked over a months time. To a 17 year old this is a long time to be out of pocket
b) He uses the same instructor for the second test. I could understand him not wanting to.

Personally I would just go with the flow and take the instructor up on their offer, but I can also see the argument for getting your money back now and worrying about paying for the next test when the time comes.

Kerming · 3 Oct 2011 at 23:25

ok and i agree with you on that part, i think what Tracey was originally planning to do was use the next 2hrs that you had a test and not charge you as to make up for it but if thats not something you want to do then thats fine, she will have to refund you the remaining ballance

On a positive note.

PMKeates · 3 Oct 2011 at 23:26

Amoeba said:
Only if

a) He takes his test again in the near future -- he has his booked over a months time. To a 17 year old this is a long time to be out of pocket
b) He uses the same instructor for the second test. I could understand him not wanting to.

Personally I would just go with the flow and take the instructor up on their offer, but I can also see the argument for getting your money back now and worrying about paying for the next test when the time comes.

Only your point b) is valid.

His cash situation is as follows:

1. Pays for original test £62
2. Has to pay for rebooked test £62
3. Instructor immediately offers £22 towards this

Total net cash loss 'to date' £102

The original situation would have been:

1. Pays for original test £62
2. Pays for instructor's time £40

Total net cash loss 'to date' would have been £102

It's exactly the same.

Amoeba · 3 Oct 2011 at 23:27

PMKeates said:
Only your point b) is valid.

His cash situation is as follows:

1. Pays for original test £62
2. Has to pay for rebooked test £62
3. Instructor immediately offers £22 towards this

Total net cash loss 'to date' £102

The original situation would have been

1. Pays for original test £62
2. Pays for instructor's time £40

Total net cash loss 'to date' would have been £102

It's exactly the same.

Apart from he would (may) have had a driving license by now

Kerming · 3 Oct 2011 at 23:29

Apart from he would (may) have had a driving license by now

not to mension its an incovience for me for transport to UNI. now have to get lift's from friends.

PMKeates · 3 Oct 2011 at 23:31

Kerming said:
PM, I understand it perfect. Its just from my view its just no fair, I had everything lined up and starting uni that week as well realy didn't help and I need all the money I can get.

What isn't fair about it? Do you want compensation or something? They are offering to put you in exactly the same net financial and cashflow position as you would have been. What you're effectively asking is that they take an additional £40 cashflow hit so that you can have £40 more than you would have had for a period of 6 weeks, before then spending it on the instructor's time for your second test!

Switching instructors at this time will almost certainly delay your progress.

Draeger · 3 Oct 2011 at 23:34

Kerming said:
dose your company display their instructors reference number in the windscreen? or how else can I find it?

This is correct. ADI's must display their green registration ID on the driving school car windscreen. As far as I'm aware there isn't a reference number of sorts on this green certificate. There's details of the ADI and an expiry date.

Driving schools and instructors rely on "word of mouth" and reputation for their business. Any negative feedback from pupils soon filters through to the local populace and can be quite damaging for their business. Going by the info you posted earlier regarding how they propose to at least initially resolve the situation, I feel they are being reasonable. However, it's completely up to you on how far you push it and what you want personally as a resolution. If you still feel aggrieved by the situation and their proposals to resolve it, then by all means inform them of your feelings and make sure they are aware that you are considering contacting the DSA regarding this. They may upon hearing this, be a bit more forthcoming with recompensing you for your trouble.

That said as I already mentioned, they appear to be trying to resolve the situation which is at least something.

Kerming · 3 Oct 2011 at 23:36

Listen, I had to pay for a new test and they said they will pay up the full amount.

Thanks Draeger for your help.

PMKeates · 3 Oct 2011 at 23:37

Kerming said:
Listen, I had to pay for a new test and they said they will pay up the full amount.

They were paying up the full amount before, just now you are taking £40 of their money.. for 6 weeks, when you'll have to spend it again on an instructor's time. You gain, literally, nothing. Zero.

Kerming · 3 Oct 2011 at 23:46

im getting a call tomorrow so hopefully It should be resolved.

Thanks for you honesty guys/girls.

MikeHiow · 3 Oct 2011 at 23:57