Where does the universe end?

Whilst it's clear that many people wont accept that fact that 0.9r and 1 are exactly the same real number, it is unclear why such people would hold their own opinion in such high regard. For me, it's not about trying to convince people of the fact 1=0.9r - whether they understand it or not doesn't bother me. What irritates me is that they seem to think they know better.

I don't want to refer to the article I brought up, regarding incompetency, as it seemed to get peoples backs up. I shall simply state there are two different types of people I have encountered when it comes to this subject:

a) The people that find the result "1=0.9r" strange, and against their intuition. And then defer to the fact that they don't have more than an A-Level in mathematics (or less), so are willing to accept the result as true, but not as something they understand.

b) The people that find the result "1=0.9r" strange, and against their intuition. And then assert that because they don't get it, it must be wrong. Heaven forbid that their A in GCSE mathematics has not equipped them with the tools needed to understand the construction of the real numbers. No, it's not that. It's far more likely that all the worlds mathematicians, who have spent their lives studying the subject and probing the limits of our knowledge, missed this little bit.

I might add, that if any of the nay-sayers were correct, in that they had a proof that 1 and 0.9r were different real numbers, this would amount to finding an inconsistency in ZFC, which would undoubtedly lead to a Fields medal, the highest accolade any mathematician can amount to. Professorships, fellowships, research grants and a host of other financially beneficial offers would be bestowed upon you - so I would urge you to send your proofs to the leading journals.
 
Whilst it's clear that many people wont accept that fact that 0.9r and 1 are exactly the same real number, it is unclear why such people would hold their own opinion in such high regard. For me, it's not about trying to convince people of the fact 1=0.9r - whether they understand it or not doesn't bother me. What irritates me is that they seem to think they know better.

I don't want to refer to the article I brought up, regarding incompetency, as it seemed to get peoples backs up. I shall simply state there are two different types of people I have encountered when it comes to this subject:

a) The people that find the result "1=0.9r" strange, and against their intuition. And then defer to the fact that they don't have more than an A-Level in mathematics (or less), so are willing to accept the result as true, but not as something they understand.

b) The people that find the result "1=0.9r" strange, and against their intuition. And then assert that because they don't get it, it must be wrong. Heaven forbid that their A in GCSE mathematics has not equipped them with the tools needed to understand the construction of the real numbers. No, it's not that. It's far more likely that all the worlds mathematicians, who have spent their lives studying the subject and probing the limits of our knowledge, missed this little bit.

What about c) The people that find the result "1=0.9r stange and against their intuition, don't have an A-Level in mathematics but once having seen the really easy to understand proofs think "Hey, you know what, it does".

I understand how frustrating it can be (having just been arguing with yet another 9/11 thread) but please, get off that high horse of yours.
 
Nobody will ever know, we aren't even a speck of dust compared to the universe, yet there are some people that try to explain away an unanswerable question by using maths etc. All the intelligence in the world wont solve this one, think mankind should stick to something closer to home to research, like the cure for dandruff first!
 
Nobody will ever know, we aren't even a speck of dust compared to the universe, yet there are some people that try to explain away an unanswerable question by using maths etc. All the intelligence in the world wont solve this one, think mankind should stick to something closer to home to research, like the cure for dandruff first!

Personally I really hope that we always have people asking the impossible to answer questions and striving to find the answers, we would have lost so much if people just took the above attitude to life.
 
but please, get off that high horse of yours.

He wont have to, his horse died, boredom listening to him.


.9r can never be a true 1 it is an infinite, trying to show .9r as true 1 would be taking an infinite and substituting it for a finite and can't be done otherwise .9r would be wrong. Maths dictates that assumption gives .9r the value of 1 so that is the value we shall use in maths. Leave the laymen alone as they are in-part right, as maths is in part right but only due to assumption being used to make an infinite into a useable number (due to the difference being infinite (ironic) ).
 
He wont have to, his horse died, boredom listening to him.


.9r can never be a true 1 it is an infinite, trying to show .9r as true 1 would be taking an infinite and substituting it for a finite and can't be done otherwise .9r would be wrong. Maths dictates that assumption gives .9r the value of 1 so that is the value we shall use in maths. Leave the laymen alone as they are in-part right, as maths is in part right but only due to assumption being used to make an infinite into a useable number (due to the difference being infinite (ironic) ).

To be fair the two proofs posted were enough to convince this layman that 1=.9r, it is pretty straigtfoward in those.
 
Personally I really hope that we always have people asking the impossible to answer questions and striving to find the answers, we would have lost so much if people just took the above attitude to life.

It's one thing to find the answers to important things here on earth, which are comprehend able, it's a completley different scenario when you are talking about solving the mystery of the universe. Lets get things sorted and questions answered on earth first before we even contemplate thinking about where the universe ends. Although, like another age old question, the meaning of life, the answer will never be found:)
 
question you need to ask yourself is there a perfect circle if so then there is a perfect straight line, if there isnt a perfect circle then there isnt a perfect straight line.
For example is there a limited or unlimited number between 0 and 1? answer is unlimited.
 
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To be fair the two proofs posted were enough to convince this layman that 1=.9r, it is pretty straigtfoward in those.

And I agree with that but they are floored in favour of showing an infinite as a finite, those calculations leave out the infinite properties of .9r out of the equation and you can't recover them back into the equation thus they are lost and an infinite becomes a finite.

0.9r r-represents the infinite
0.9999999999999999-infinity is not used in the equations to enable assumption to treat .9r as 1.
 
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And I agree with that but they are floored in favour of showing an infinite as a finite, those calculations leave out the infinite properties of .9r out of the equation and you can't recover them back into the equation thus they are lost and an infinite becomes a finite.

0.9r r-represents the infinite
0.9999999999999999-infinity is not used in the equations to enable assumtion to treat .9r as 1.
numbers and the physical world are different. With the physical world there are limits with number there arnt.
Universe ends and were there is nothing is that part of the universe?
 
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I agree with your point but your posts hold the same sort of pretentious tone that you are arguing against. :)
I'm not arguing against peoples pretentious tone - I'm arguing about their over inflated opinion of their ability to judge the veracity of a mathematical statement.
What about c) The people that find the result "1=0.9r stange and against their intuition, don't have an A-Level in mathematics but once having seen the really easy to understand proofs think "Hey, you know what, it does".
You're right - those people are certainly about too!
I understand how frustrating it can be (having just been arguing with yet another 9/11 thread) but please, get off that high horse of yours.
Why are people so overly defensive here? No one is pretending it's a crime to get things wrong. No one is making fun of those who say "I don't get it...". The people who I've brought into question are those that state "1 and 0.9r are not the same". The same people who believe they know better than all the worlds mathematicians, as I've mentioned.

For such people, I choose not to sugar coat my posts.
 
.9r can never be a true 1 it is an infinite, trying to show .9r as true 1 would be taking an infinite and substituting it for a finite and can't be done otherwise .9r would be wrong. Maths dictates that assumption gives .9r the value of 1 so that is the value we shall use in maths. Leave the laymen alone as they are in-part right, as maths is in part right but only due to assumption being used to make an infinite into a useable number (due to the difference being infinite (ironic) ).
Are you drunk?
 
I'm not arguing against peoples pretentious tone - I'm arguing about their over inflated opinion of their ability to judge the veracity of a mathematical statement.

You're right - those people are certainly about too!

Why are people so overly defensive here? No one is pretending it..

welcome to ocuk forums :)
 
The universe is curved, in our own 3d experience (or 4d if you include time) there is no edge like a 2d man walking around a sphere.
 
Sorry to contribute to the 0.99r = 1 discussion but I've gotta.

I did initially think 0.99r != 1, it's just an amazingly accurate representation. However I'd be silly if I didn't appreciate the fact that many men and women far more intelligent than myself have studied this for many years and have come to a different conclusion.

So does 1.99r = 2? If not, why not? Excuse my ignorance :)
 
Sorry to contribute to the 0.99r = 1 discussion but I've gotta.

I did initially think 0.99r != 1, it's just an amazingly accurate representation. However I'd be silly if I didn't appreciate the fact that many men and women far more intelligent than myself have studied this for many years and have come to a different conclusion.

So does 1.99r = 2? If not, why not? Excuse my ignorance :)

Excuse me im very very drunk :D.
 
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