Which 24" would you advise? S-PVA or S-IPS?

[Loko]

Trying to select the best 24" available at the moment. My shortlist is as follows:

Dell 2407WFP A04
Dell 2408WFP
Hazro HZ24W

I'm not really in the market for TN film, I'm after a superior panel, mainly becuase of the viewing angles. A lot of gaming and movie watching will be done on the monitor. Also some photography work, hence after decent colour reproduction.

What do you think!?

 

[Loko]

Thanks for your replies guys. From what everyone has been saying on forums it's hard to choose as we all have our preferences.

I currently have a Sammy 226BW and it's a good panel for gaming but it seems to be missing something when it comes to image quality.

I used have the NEC LCD20WGX2, that was a IPS panel and it's been the best image quality I've seen on a LCD. Mine had backlight bleed probs which were common when they first came out so I ended up changing it for something a little bigger.

I think I might go for the Hazro. LCD's are about compromises and the only to cons of the Hazro are: no HDCP and average black depths.

The HDCP issue can be resolved with AnyDVD HD, so it's only the blacks. Need to check what my current sammy is like on paper to gauge it.

 

[Loko]

Curse you there's so much choice!

http://www.trustedreviews.com/displays/review/2006/09/13/BenQ-FP241W-24in-Widescreen-Monitor/p1

Top marks for the BenQ here...looks good on paper, I hate the silver look though.

 

[Loko]

Booo!

 

[Loko]

I doubt anyones gonna ever get a decent 24" in fact theres no such thing, well maybe the benqs.

Even with the 2408 HC I read the other day u can put a hdmi device to it and u still wont get proper 1080p signal, thru DVI its fine.....

Just boggles and explodes the mind these companies dont bother to switch on there product and test it for 5 minutes and we have to deal with the issues.

Id consider that lovely new BenQ but its not really that updated would have expected twin HDMI/2 DVIs and 102 gamut and more up to date features especially @ 600 + price tag.

I think im just gonna stick with my Samsung 245B TN panel while bad viewing angles im not gonna be moving my head left and right and the image quality is gonna be the same as the highend screens anyhow, from whats been mentioned the only difference is viewing angles! + at least with the Samsung 245B theres praticly no lag and no ghosting since its aimed at gamers

There is a big difference between a 245B and other panels. I'm not even talking about going to a Lacie or Eizo. A good friend of mine is a graphic designer and has a variety of panels at work. I've seen the high end offerings and they are truly stunning. However, you have to pay for it and they may not be the best for games. We won't know, gamers don't spend £1000 on a monitor, they may be fine. One for Baddass to test.

 

[Loko]

It's true, I'm constantly browsing the forums at these angles just for the fact that it's possible!

Lol. You gotta love sarcasm.

 

[Loko]

badass was the one who told me theres not gonna be a major difference in IQ over the TN and other higher end panels that we see on the benqs, dells around 500ish range.

And hes right if u check the reviews out when there doing comparisions you can see the only differences they seem to mention is the viewing angles over the TN panels.

Yeah I guess on the 800-1k screens bound to see the difference especially for graphical use theres gonna be a major difference.

This is why a lot of 2408HC Dell owners and people waiting on it simply abandoned it on the hardocp massive thread and a lot of folk were simply posting gonna go back to TN panels since they dont have the input lag/ghosting issues to worry about

As has been mentioned, viewing angles do make a big difference which is not perceivable with colorimeter results. The laptop example is extreme but it makes a good point if you've ever used a lappy day in day out.

The other point to note is that comparing screens on paper is only half the picture (see what I did there? lol). Anyway, the point is that when your senses are involved so much of the perception we form is subjective. The issue of ghosting and input lag is highly so. As an example, I have a good friend and clan mate who is a graphic designer that has a 2707WFP. We play quite a lot of CoD4 and he doesn't notice any input lag. He's actually at the top of the score board most of the time. That's not to say it's not present, it just shows that some users are either not affected by it or adjust to it. He enjoys the gaming experience, ultimately it's what matters.

The analogy is hifi equipment. My set-up is relatively expensive and sounds fantastic in my opinion. However, you might pop along and have a listen and completely hate it. Doesn't mean the equipment is rubbish, it's just down to taste and also what you use it for.

Another good question is, how much of the ranting that goes on do you feel is placebo effect? Us human beings are very good at hating something without trying it!
Backlight bleed is a good example of this. I've seen this so much, people reporting no backlight bleed but when you point it out to them they're gutted and can't stop seeing it.

 

[Loko]

Pilch,

Personally I wouldn't go for a TN film panel on the 24" size. I've been tinkering with a Dell 248WFP (TN panel) today at work. I do like the asthetics but there is a noticeable contrast shift side to side when you move your head around. It is worse vertically which is not so bad, as you move your head side to side more than up and down in normal use, if that makes any sense. Unfortunately I can't take it home and do some proper testing. I'll hook up the lappy after hours and have a play...some of us do actually work 9 till 5.

I'll do some more tinkering with the 248WFP in the next couple of days and report back. In the mean time I've taken the plunge with the Hazro. I have managed to get hold of the 24" unit with a very large discount which has tipped me over. I was really after a S-IPS panel, so I couldn't resist. It's worked out only slightly more than a TN film 24" so no excuses.

The monitor arrives on Thursday, I'll take it through its paces over the weekend and compare against my experience with the 248WFP. Hopefully I can provide some useful experience of TN vs. S-IPS, my take on it at least.

LCD technology is all about compromises and so far the pros and cons that helped me decide on the Hazro where as follows:

Pros:
Asthetics (it looks very nice, subjective of course, but I like the minimalist approach. Plus the case is all aluminium.)
Build quality.
Color Accuracy (good thing about S-IPS).
Wide viewing angles (S-IPS benefits again).
Responsiveness.

Cons:
Average black depth (we'll see how it does here in real life usage).
Connectivity (it has DVI, VGA and Component, pretty good but not up to the standard of Dell's).
No HDCP (after speaking with the Harzo Product Manager he tells me they are rolling this out across their whole range but it's not expected until summer).


From the cons point of view the connectivity seemed adequate to me, as I don't use any consoles. The HDCP was putting me off but since it can be sorted via software I've become more comfortable, push come to shove I'll replace mine with an updated version later on. The black depth is all I am a little anxious about. Input lag was measured at 33ms which is only slightly slower than the 2407WFP A04 which so many people are delighted with. Ghosting/tearing is minimal according to a couple of reports, S-IPS is usually quite good in this area anyway.

I'll create a big post/review when it comes in.

Arturo

 

[Loko]

Congratulations on your purchase, looking forward to see what you think of the Hazro (with pics ).



If your refering to the Dell 2408WFP, it is an S-PVA panel!

Sorry chap, I missed the E off. I meant the E248WFP, TN panel.

 

[Loko]

Baddass is keeping quiet!

 

[Loko]

Cool. Hazro arrives tomorrow!!

 

[Loko]

I paid £370 including next day delivery.

Maybe Gibbo can discuss with them if OCUK could distribute them. At the moment nobody does.

 

[Loko]

Ive dragged his name into it lol but it is sorta a confusing point I made I guess, as said before it might just be personal preference.

My Samsung 245B was still a positive one and while I noted the viewing angles issue guess it wasnt "that" bad really, in comparision to ghosting and the other issues PVA and other panels may get it maybe a likely trade off especially for the surfer/gamer, for someone doing photo/editing then yeah different matter of course.

It still boggles the mind how a few people on the 2408hc dell hardocp thread said right thats it gonna get a good TN panel while they sort out there "amen"

You are correct in my humble opinion. As I mentioned in one of my posts above it's about the experience we each form through the use of the monitor. Consequently everything mentioned is to a degree subjective, we've already discussed how numbers on paper are not sufficient to judge a monitor. In the same way they are not how you judge a set of speakers.

If you put preference over input lag above colour fidelity you are likely to be much happier with a TN panel. Nevertheless, viewing angles is a factor which can impact day to day usage on these large screens. Ultimately LCD technology is about compromises, just like everything else in engineering - guess what I do for a living.

 

[Loko]

are you willing to say how you got such a good price?

I'm guessing you got it from their seller on the bay?

Well I would happily say but not sure if that would contravene any forum rules. Nothing sinister, just one of those 'right time and place' moments.

By next week Hazro's should be available for purchase more easily by the general public. It would be interesting to find out if OCUK would be interested in stocking their portfolio (and if Hazro would be willing to do so of course). Currently Hazro are only planning on sales via a web shop.

Still since OCUK only stock performance hardware and there is a very limited choice of S-IPS panels in the 24" market, I thought they might be able to shift quite a few units.

I am of course assuming it turns out to be very good!

 

[Loko]

The Hazro is here!! A full review to follow shortly. So far only played with desktop. Found a single faulty pixel, bummer. Stuck on red.
It would be nice to have a perfect screen but I can honestly say hand on heart it's only noticeable with the blank screen saver on. I can't see it even knowing where it is otherwise so I'm happy.

Otherwise, no backlight bleed, panel uniformity is perfect. Build quality is fantastic, best I've every seen in a monitor. Needs calibrating now!

Will report more later! So far very happy!

 

[Loko]

I haven't seen any noticeable input lag. I love mine.

I'm hoping to take some pics with the clock running against my SM-226BW.

 

[Loko]

By the way, I'll write up a full review. I've been meaning too but been snowed under at work, my team couldn't organise a drinking party (lol) in a brewery!

Hopefully soon. Colours are fantastic!

 

[Loko]

average of 32.5ms from my testing:

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/hazro_hz24w.htm

That's inline with the pics I've taken comparing against my SM-226BW. Highest was 45ms, lowest was 0, average 33ms.

I play a lot of CoD4 and I've found no perceptible difference. Certainly no ghosting. It might be a little more laggy than the Samsung, there have been a couple of frags where I've thought I should have had him but might just be me getting old. I don't find it affects me and I'd much rather have the tip top image quality. Having said that I play CoD4 in a CounterStrike type style. Small servers in Hardcore mode rather than the more fast paced action which is popular. Fix, flank and fire. Best way to play.

Hence input lag makes no odds to my gaming experience.

 

[Loko]

Hazro was setting up their web shop last time I spoke to the Product Manager, though they were being delayed. You can get hold of them direct though. Nevertheless, they are looking for resellers, so Gibbo, give them a call and start selling HZ24W's like hot cakes!

I think the monitor does a good job. Sat next to a TN panel, the S-IPS is just in a different league. It may be slower than the SM-226BW, that one is very quick indeed, but I enjoy gaming on it. Quite frankly in my opinion, if you need another 25ms to beat a guy, you ain't good enough. Target acquisition speed is more relevant, in my humble opinion. It takes far longer than 25ms to process the image and displace your hand across the mouse mat. I can't see how it makes or brakes gaming, still I can't stand Quake and UT so haven't really played those to speak of.
I do have a good friend & clanmate consistently hits top scores with 100ms ping on a 2707 which supposedly has around 55ms input lag. The crooks of it, don't hide behind input lag as an excuse. Just my 2p.

Will post a review at the weekend.

 

[Loko]

Please note, as I mentioned in a prior post, that HDCP is currently being incorporated across the range. They are changing the DA cards in the monitors to add this functionality. This should be available from June onwards.

I personally look at Full HD material from my hard drive so HDCP isn't an issue for me.

With regards to DPMS, I have no problems. I'm running Vista x64 on a 8800GTS, with latest nvidia drivers - v169.25 WHQL (not beta). I suspect it's a driver issue.