Which job?

[britboy4321]

The thing that confuses me here is that the reason a contractor is paid as much as they are is because they arrive, hit the ground running, and do the job. They dont need to ask for examples. They dont need to have management checking they are good enough. They just get on with it.

britboy is unable to do this so should look for a normal job.

I have been contracting for 15 years and this is the first proper snag really (apart from a few months ago had trouble finding work so went permy for a few months - hated it ..not my gig) .. I'm not sure it's really time to hang up the contracting shoes altogether ...

Went on to company intranet today and found one for a different project. Halleluyah. This should be a blimin' lifeline let me tells ya. Boss is still being nasty but if you just persuade yourself you care little this also seems to help ..

 

[Deluxe1]

For someone who claims he is so smart he's always on here asking others for advice.

 

[britboy4321]

For someone who claims he is so smart he's always on here asking others for advice.

I never claimed I was smart.


ps. I am smart.

 

[ThieveryCorp]

Why did the hiring manager offer you the job in the first place? Seems to me their interview process is a bit lax.

 

[Ev0]

The thing that confuses me here is that the reason a contractor is paid as much as they are is because they arrive, hit the ground running, and do the job. They dont need to ask for examples. They dont need to have management checking they are good enough. They just get on with it.

I agree up to a point, however a company will always have things specific to them that no one external will possibly know about before joining.

However they are specifics and contractors should always know the 'theory' behind them as such.

So in this case Britboy should know how to do a model test execution plan, but if this company want something more than just that, or something a bit more tailored to their processes, then he needs to communicate with them to find out what extra it is he needs to include. He shouldn't go asking them 'er how do I do one of these' as that would be a sign of lack of ability, just needs to know what extra needs to be done over a standard/model example.

If he doesn't know the theory, model way of doing it, then yes he really shouldn't be there.

And whilst we're all knocking him there is some repsonsibility on the company who hired him to make sure he can do this during the interview stage. I know contractor interviews generally consist of "can you do this? If so, welcome aboard", but unless he has explicitly lied about his abilities to them then it's not all his fault. And then there's the good old checking of references of previous work done which many people neglect to do.

That's from lots of experience of working with contractors, and a teeny tiny bit of experience being one.

Also still waiting to hear if you actually have every ISEB certification as stated, or if it's just the software testing strand

Why did the hiring manager offer you the job in the first place? Seems to me their interview process is a bit lax.

Sadly it totally depends on what he said, if they asked can you do this and he said yes, knowing full well that he couldn't, then it's his fault not theirs. Although checking references, previous work, might have mitigated that. Going on hsi goat milking example I'm guessing that's what happened.

 

[LordSplodge]

I'm doing a Test plan / UAT at the moment and it is so individual to the job (after all who would post my exact plan on the Internet? It's mostly useless to others and confidential anyway!)

Sounds to me that whilst Britboy is a little out of his depth (and why not we all need to try it on) his boss is expecting the moon on a stick.

I do with Brotboy would not come across as a Nigel Knowitall and have a little more modesty. That's all...

 

[Showboat]

How about you don't go posting on here during the day and get on with the job!

 

[robotSocks]

How about you don't go posting on here during the day and get on with the job!

agreed - OP is an idiiot IMO

 

[LordSplodge]

Much love for the op, I sense.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

The thing that confuses me here is that the reason a contractor is paid as much as they are is because they arrive, hit the ground running, and do the job. They dont need to ask for examples. They dont need to have management checking they are good enough. They just get on with it.

Partly true, but often organisations have standards and models they expect which will be unique to them. I worked with some **** hot consultants in the past (over £20k per month **** hot) and even they still had to be given certain information, data diagrams etc (mods to software).

But there is a big gulf between "whats one of them" to "sure, please just give me your templates so I comply with your process/layout/methodology"

I have seen some shocking contractors in my past who thought they knew it all and tried to bluff and do it "their way" was always fun knocking them down off their pedestal and showing them how they were in fact going to do it.

Best I ever saw was a contractor who was involved in an upgrade to a finance system. He de-scoped year end functionality testing, so I challenged him, hes said it was unimportant due to being rarely used. I laughed, then said I think you may need to review that, again he came up with well its also hard to test and not important anyway, the effort compared to the risk is low.
So I pushed harder and eventually said well I tell you what I will just flag it as a concern to the FD next time I speak to him. Roll on weekly project review and I raise my concern, FD was far from impressed, turns out the "Finance expert IT consultant" had never tested a year end and so had de-scoped it as he couldn't flesh the bones on that bit, and had no idea how a failed year end process at the busiest time of year for most finance departments may be a bit of an issue.

 

[Myshra]

TEPs are both individual but more importantly, highly secure, documents. As the others have said you should have probably asked for the requirements of the doc before going solo and making one. It's not a huge mess up unless you turn it into one. You can probably recover by acting mature, asking for examples of expected output, consulting the affected people, customers and delivering well and on time.

Liking the failed EOY test strat though. Bet that was an amazing meeting.

 

[rubberduck]

If the OP is out of his depth then it is the fault of the company for hiring him. Providing he didnt outright lie at the interview, which, even if he did, could have been picked up on with a few choice questions.

Surely something along the lines of "What is your understanding of a 'detailed test execution plan' and what has been your involvement with related projects in the past" could have been asked prior to the contact being offered?

 

[britboy4321]

OK, a few things quickly that people have mentioned

1) At the interview they didn't ever mention the words 'detailed test execution plan' at all. Those words were never discussed. If they were .. I'd have said 'I'm sorry I have not got experience of working on such a document'. Lying at interview is always ALWAYS the road to ruin ....

2) They definately DON'T want a list of tests. Its higher level. We already have a test strategy, test policy and test approach document so it's something different from that. I have 10 people working for me. From what I have figured out from her conversations although she refuses to tell me exactly what it is prefering to use it as a beating stick .. it's some kind of living document stating who will be working on what, at what time .. with expectations and risks and delays and dependencies bunged into some supremo algorithm (excel?) which means Derek should be able to finish testing ABC on the 13th then move to DEF meaning that can finish quicker etc.. with pretty colours gently turning red as things go wrong or deliverables arn't .. er .. delivered! Or something.

3) I didn't lie one bit at the interview

4) I have never had to do one of these, or seen one before, in my life. My (few) testing friends have never seen such a thing in practice although they have seen derivitives. We all can however understand why it'd be useful.

5) I still don't really know what she's after and teh deadlines are starting to fail as another work day passes with the document not to her expectations. If I try and hint and drag more information out of her it's (shake head) come on Britboy .. are you serious? How long have you been a test manager? You sound out of your depth etc etc

5) She has stated me not seeing one before, or used one before, or created one before, is a major failing and what on earth have I been doing for 15 years.


As I said -- very messy.


(Whoever asked - just the ISEB testing qualifications to practitioner... still fills the CV and looks impressive. I didn't take any of the courses (too expensive) - just straight for the exams after revising from notes I'd gypsied off t'net. Saved over 8K. Everyone should do this - courses (that are £3K etc!!) are a con when decent notes are available ...

 

[Hatter The Mad]

4) I have never had to do one of these, or seen one before, in my life. My (few) testing friends have never seen such a thing in practice although they have seen derivitives. We all can however understand why it'd be useful.

Then you're all not really specialist testing contractors, are you? They are not uncommon for medium sized (and up) business systems.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

So it sounds a bit more like a gant chart then?

There was another thing we used to use years ago but the name escapes me, was less like a document tho and much more like a critical path / resource matrix planner

 

[Mr^B]

So, what you are trying to say is that they have asked you for something, but not told you what it is that they want?

Sounds a bit suspicious if you ask me. I assume the project is behind schedule (most are) - so they are looking for a scapegoat. Ask them exactly what they want, not what it is called. If they say that's not what we were after just reply back honestly and say "that's what I've done before, if you want something different please tell me as I'm not a mind-reading you ******* ignorant sow."

Having said that, if you're managing people it sounds more like you need to work out which resource is working on which bits of the test execution, how long they will take, what tasks can be done in parallel, when the business will have first sight of the product for UAT, that sort of thing.

 

[HangTime]

5) I still don't really know what she's after and teh deadlines are starting to fail as another work day passes with the document not to her expectations. If I try and hint and drag more information out of her it's (shake head) come on Britboy .. are you serious? How long have you been a test manager? You sound out of your depth etc etc

5) She has stated me not seeing one before, or used one before, or created one before, is a major failing and what on earth have I been doing for 15 years.


As I said -- very messy.


(Whoever asked - just the ISEB testing qualifications to practitioner... still fills the CV and looks impressive. I didn't take any of the courses (too expensive) - just straight for the exams after revising from notes I'd gypsied off t'net. Saved over 8K. Everyone should do this - courses (that are £3K etc!!) are a con when decent notes are available ...

As much as I didn't want to I am inclined to agree with the comment about her possibly looking for a scapegoat (or possibly has some other agenda). In her position if I had someone working for me who was not delivering something I'd asked for I would make efforts to clarify what exactly I was looking for not just go "haha you got it wrong again". Yes contractors need to hit the ground running but different organisations work in different ways, I worked in testing for about 5 years and you would still come across strange practices or ambiguous naming conventions sometimes.

As for a ISEB I would take that with a pinch of salt, it's the sort of qualification which anyone academic can pass irrespective of their knowledge of testing in a corporate environment (I took the foundation after 3 weeks working as a tester and outscored all my more experienced colleagues).

Anyway my understanding is that a detailed test execution plan means what (specific) tests are going to be executed when and by whom. Then back it up with some fancy graphs each day showing progress i.e. passed/failed/deferred percentages against planned. Most major software packages used to manage testing artifacts will probably have some sort of reporting functionality to do this for you.

Then again my view may different from hers which is why I'd find her attitude difficult, as mentioned above different organisations work differently (especially in terms of planning, MI etc) so if she can't recognise that then I'd say it's as much a failing on her part.

Sorry back on topic stick with job #1 as it pays more and has a shorter commute. Whole point of contracting I thought was to sit back and watch the cash rolling in rather than worrying about anything else.