Who makes the best auto boxes?

Gaygle · 27 Jun 2017 at 12:28

Probably because the ZF 8 speed and new 9 speed box has closed the gap significantly in terms of shift speed and has the benefit of being less complex, less expensive and smoother.

Only in applications where super fast shifts are needed will they put it in. And even then, DCT is a feeling thing rather than a speed thing.

inflames · 27 Jun 2017 at 12:51

Iv driven a couple of different Lexus now and got to say the Auto box in them is excellent.

Dis86 · 27 Jun 2017 at 12:58

Most people in mine don't even realise when it has changed gear. Zf for the record.

Dangerous Dave · 27 Jun 2017 at 12:59

paradigm said:
In Audi terms, non-RS models.

I expect the new RS4 will come with the ZF box, the new M5 has dropped the dual clutch box for the 8 speed ZF.

Dangerous Dave · 27 Jun 2017 at 13:03

Dis86 said:
Most people in mine don't even realise when it has changed gear. Zf for the record.

One thing the dual clutch boxes do better than the ZF is a full throttle gear change when in sports mode. You can't fell these at all on a DSG/DCT box but in sports + the ZF box does bang in the next gear with a noticeable jerk.

chroniclard · 27 Jun 2017 at 13:12

Dangerous Dave said:
One thing the dual clutch boxes do better than the ZF is a full throttle gear change when in sports mode. You can't fell these at all on a DSG/DCT box but in sports + the ZF box does bang in the next gear with a noticeable jerk.

No real jerk in mine when it changes when accelerating hard. There is more of one when its in flappy paddle mode.

Cant compare to a dsg, never driven one.

[TW]Fox · 27 Jun 2017 at 13:13

Dangerous Dave said:
One thing the dual clutch boxes do better than the ZF is a full throttle gear change when in sports mode. You can't fell these at all on a DSG/DCT box but in sports + the ZF box does bang in the next gear with a noticeable jerk.

Isn't that an intentional programming thing though? I don't think mine does it.

Dangerous Dave · 27 Jun 2017 at 13:14

chroniclard said:
No real jerk in mine when it changes when accelerating hard. There is more of one when its in flappy paddle mode.

Cant compare to a dsg, never driven one.

Doesn't do it in normal only when it's on sports mode with the faster shifts, it is a noticeable gear change in this mode but faster.

[TW]Fox said:
Isn't that an intentional programming thing though? I don't think mine does it.

I don't know I thought that as well to give the sensation of faster changes but it is noticeable

chroniclard · 27 Jun 2017 at 13:16

Dangerous Dave said:
Doesn't do it in normal only when it's on sports mode with the faster shifts, it is a noticeable gear change in this mode but faster.

Its pretty smooth for me.

However, the DSG may be smoother, I dont really recall the gear changes being a passenger in various Audi's.

crinkleshoes · 27 Jun 2017 at 13:27

The standard merc box is terrible... their dual clutch box is good but I think you only get it in things like C63AMG type end of the spectrum.

BMW boxes are very good, both the ZF box and DCT.

The latest Jag boxes are pretty good.

Porsche PDK is up with M-DCT as the two best auto boxes I've used in a more reasonably priced car (ie, McLaren / Ferrari / etc are generally very good too).

DSG is very smooth... but the cars that it goes in are all terrible (possibly with the exception of the R8 - but I'm not sure what box is in that and anyone with an R8 should get that gated manual shifter anyway).

Gaygle · 27 Jun 2017 at 13:32

Just watching a couple of videos on Youtube - the shifts in an E92 M3 DCT vs a M135i ZF 8HP appear to be as quick as each other, if not appearing to be a bit quicker in the M135i?

M135i 8HP - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5suVTG90YjI
E92 M3 DCT - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAAzJkApO0o

crinkleshoes · 27 Jun 2017 at 13:37

The DCT is better but the ZF is good

wesley · 27 Jun 2017 at 13:51

is DCT an other word for DSG?

matthab · 27 Jun 2017 at 14:08

Im going to say the 6 speed DSG in my Cupra is very impressive. The ZF 8 speed is good but feels a little lazy? The DSG is just always on point and is lightening quick.

I cant say the same for the dry clutch 7 speed DSG, which is in smaller engines.

chroniclard · 27 Jun 2017 at 14:19

ZF is fairly "lazy" in normal. Sport+ and when you knock it over to sport as well its much much quicker/responsive.

Armageus · 27 Jun 2017 at 14:21

wesley said:
is DCT an other word for DSG?

DSG (Direct Shift Gearbox/Direkt-Schalt-Getriebe) is just the VW branding of their DCT (Dual Clutch Transmission)

PDK (Porsche Doppelkupplungsgetriebe) is another branding, used by Porsche (and made by ZF to possibly confuse matters in this thread)

Dis86 · 27 Jun 2017 at 14:22

chroniclard said:
ZF is fairly "lazy" in normal. Sport+ and when you knock it over to sport as well its much much quicker/responsive.

It really is. I honestly didn't realise this with my 328i. I'm a fool.

paradigm · 27 Jun 2017 at 14:24

matthab said:
Im going to say the 6 speed DSG in my Cupra is very impressive. The ZF 8 speed is good but feels a little lazy? The DSG is just always on point and is lightening quick.

I cant say the same for the dry clutch 7 speed DSG, which is in smaller engines.

The "wet" 7-speed in my S3 is superb, the dry 7-speed in my Mrs' Polo is "ok", but not in the same league.

andythelandy · 27 Jun 2017 at 14:47

It's always confused me slightly when people say traditional autos are generally smoother than a dct.

I have driven virtually every JLR product and the 8 speed in that cannot do a 1st to 2nd gear change seamlessly you always feel it without fail whereas in a dct like dsg you literally can't feel a single gearchange from my experience.

For this reason I prefer dsg but with oem's like BMW saying they're dropping dct altogether it seems like the traditional auto is making a comeback.

[TW]Fox · 27 Jun 2017 at 15:08

andythelandy said:
It's always confused me slightly when people say traditional autos are generally smoother than a dct.

I have driven virtually every JLR product and the 8 speed in that cannot do a 1st to 2nd gear change seamlessly you always feel it without fail whereas in a dct like dsg you literally can't feel a single gearchange from my experience.

I wouldn't use JLR as a benchmark for anything.