Who makes the best auto boxes?

Dup · 27 Jun 2017 at 15:14

Only driven a MKV GTI DSG and a 2000 SAAB 9-5 auto. The GTi was great fun, I got used to it almost instantly and really wish I still had it. Great compromise of performance and every day usability. Plus, the way it just thumped through the gears was awesome, it waited for nobody.

The SAAB was very very lazy, but that was an estate car for lugging dogs and whatnot. It drove how you expect for a large estate and I didn't find it frustrating. Drive the car for what it is, and your expectations are met I guess.

My next car will be an auto of some sort, hopefully a DCT.

Gaygle · 27 Jun 2017 at 15:32

A 2000 Saab 9-5 auto was truly awful when it was released, let alone comparing it to a relatively modern DSG!

wesley · 27 Jun 2017 at 15:32

andythelandy said:
It's always confused me slightly when people say traditional autos are generally smoother than a dct.

I have driven virtually every JLR product and the 8 speed in that cannot do a 1st to 2nd gear change seamlessly you always feel it without fail whereas in a dct like dsg you literally can't feel a single gearchange from my experience.

For this reason I prefer dsg but with oem's like BMW saying they're dropping dct altogether it seems like the traditional auto is making a comeback.

That's is my biggest annoying with my 8 speed auto from 1st to 2nd. The whole car surge forward everytime

[TW]Fox · 27 Jun 2017 at 15:36

wesley said:
That's is my biggest annoying with my 8 speed auto from 1st to 2nd. The whole car surge forward everytime

Welcome to the world of 4 cylinder diesels. This is why I avoid them even though the outright performance they offer is probably sufficient.

If you want smoothness and refinement why buy a 2 litre diesel? And then blame the gearbox for the engine configurations inherent flaws? A 330d or 335d doesn't drive like that.

Simon · 27 Jun 2017 at 15:41

M-DCT. Cause it has 5 diff setting for auto mode from D1 slushbox to D5 holding to redline and harder gears.

Always in the right gear, never seems confused and changes rediculously fast on S5 mode (manual with paddles) or S6( but needs traction control off) if a little brutal! The engine intertia means the car accelerates harder for a split second after a gearchange.

I think you need to judge the sum of all parts rather than just a gearbox. Some work combinations work really well together.

crinkleshoes · 27 Jun 2017 at 16:21

Yeah... the auto-blips on downshifts of the M-DCT, especially on the V8 M3 were incredibly addictive

Newer revision of PDK is also great.

Alibaba99 · 27 Jun 2017 at 18:10

crinkleshoes said:
The standard merc box is terrible... their dual clutch box is good but I think you only get it in things like C63AMG type end of the spectrum.

BMW boxes are very good, both the ZF box and DCT.

The latest Jag boxes are pretty good.

Porsche PDK is up with M-DCT as the two best auto boxes I've used in a more reasonably priced car (ie, McLaren / Ferrari / etc are generally very good too).

DSG is very smooth... but the cars that it goes in are all terrible (possibly with the exception of the R8 - but I'm not sure what box is in that and anyone with an R8 should get that gated manual shifter anyway).

The Jaguar gearboxes use the same hardware as BMW, the software and calibration are different though.

The only Mercedes with a dual clutch gearbox are the latest A and B class and the SLS AMG which shares its gearbox with the Ferrari California. The other AMGs use an epicyclic box but instead of a torque converter there is a wet clutch to take care of coming to standstill and launching.

Lustral · 27 Jun 2017 at 19:48

Shame that no ones mentioned CVT auto boxes. I believe they are unrivalled in smoothness as techincally they dont have gears , only steps if you manually override.

Pyscho_Si · 27 Jun 2017 at 19:53

Lustral said:
Shame that no ones mentioned CVT auto boxes. I believe they are unrivalled in smoothness as techincally they dont have gears , only steps if you manually override.

Mine technically has to change into a different ratio at about 75mph.... so technically 2 gears all the way to 155mph. And you can't get a smoother gearbox.

crinkleshoes · 27 Jun 2017 at 20:13

Alibaba99 said:
The Jaguar gearboxes use the same hardware as BMW, the software and calibration are different though.

The only Mercedes with a dual clutch gearbox are the latest A and B class and the SLS AMG which shares its gearbox with the Ferrari California. The other AMGs use an epicyclic box but instead of a torque converter there is a wet clutch to take care of coming to standstill and launching.

Interesting... after that I've just read up about it. I admit due to the speed of shift I had assumed it was a dual clutch unit... impressive

The C63 box was up there with PDK & M-DCT... I had nothing to complain about.

Lustral said:
Shame that no ones mentioned CVT auto boxes. I believe they are unrivalled in smoothness as techincally they dont have gears , only steps if you manually override.

Worst gearboxes ever in actual usage... absolutely horrible to use... theoretically they are a good idea, but in practice just vile. DSG is much better if you want smoothness. Let alone other options on the market.

Jonnycoupe · 27 Jun 2017 at 20:49

[TW]Fox said:
I wouldn't use JLR as a benchmark for anything.

Brutal.

Django x2 · 27 Jun 2017 at 20:56

Having covered over 200k miles with various guises of ZF box, I can confirm the following:

BMW ZF6/8 speed box is silky smooth and really knows what gear to be in
JLR 8 speed box is complete garbage and from 8th, will drop you to 5th or even 4th if you press hard on the loud peddle. That is a complete joke.
The firmware in the JLR boxes needs serious attention.

BMW DCT is incredibly smooth in normal D1/S1 mode but in S3 mode, if you change gear at full chat, you really, really know about it.

andybird123 · 27 Jun 2017 at 21:15

sovietspybob said:
Yeah the ZF 8 speed is very popular and used by a lot of manufactures like BMW, Merc, Jag to name a few, the new GM 9 speed is meant to be very good but not sure if anyone in Europe use it for anything. Ford are about to or just have brought out their new 10 speed which again will be very good. So yeah some manufactures make their own ala Audi with their DSG but a lot just buy them in from big transmission companies like ZF.

Its 10 speed for both GM and Ford, its actually the same box "co-developed" but its basically a a GM hydramatic based on the 8 speed. The 8 speed is already very good (better than the auto in my old S8) and the 10 speed gets rave reviews.

Jonnycoupe · 27 Jun 2017 at 22:07

Evoques have the Asin warner 9 speed. I think that's pretty junk aswell, good for mpg but customers seems to prefer the 6.

Lustral · 28 Jun 2017 at 07:50

crinkleshoes said:
Worst gearboxes ever in actual usage... absolutely horrible to use... theoretically they are a good idea, but in practice just vile. DSG is much better if you want smoothness. Let alone other options on the market.

Totally disagree with the worst gearbox ever statement , i have driven both DSG and CVTs for the best part of 7-8 years now and i can say for outright smoothness it has to be the CVT. The DSG pretty smooth dont get me wrong , but you can certain feel the changes on a DSG when pushing on say compared to a CVT. The only 'feels' you get from pushing on with a CVT is the holding RPM noise that you get with them and a lot of people just dont like it as it sounds like riding on a clutch , slipping clutch noise.

paradigm · 28 Jun 2017 at 08:01

I actually really like the CVTs in mid 2000's Audis, the Mrs would be driving one right now if the horror stories of them going kaput weren't so rife. Lovely and smooth, imperceptible changes in "ratio" (I know there aren't actual ratios to change, but are "fixed" points in the later firmware), and quiet as the quietest churchmouse.

Their downfall was reliability.

Alibaba99 · 28 Jun 2017 at 08:15

andybird123 said:
Its 10 speed for both GM and Ford, its actually the same box "co-developed" but its basically a a GM hydramatic based on the 8 speed. The 8 speed is already very good (better than the auto in my old S8) and the 10 speed gets rave reviews.

There are two gearboxes, one 9 and the other a 10 speed. The 10 speed was developed by Ford and GM build it under licence, and the 9 speed one was developed by GM and Ford build it under licence.

Jonnycoupe said:
Evoques have the Asin warner 9 speed. I think that's pretty junk aswell, good for mpg but customers seems to prefer the 6.

Isn't the 9 speed one a ZF unit?

panthro · 28 Jun 2017 at 08:55

Simon said:
M-DCT. Cause it has 5 diff setting for auto mode from D1 slushbox to D5 holding to redline and harder gears.

Always in the right gear, never seems confused and changes rediculously fast on S5 mode (manual with paddles) or S6( but needs traction control off) if a little brutal! The engine intertia means the car accelerates harder for a split second after a gearchange.

I think you need to judge the sum of all parts rather than just a gearbox. Some work combinations work really well together.

BMW DCT is a fantastic gearbox. Couldn't fault mine at all. Better than the Porsche PDK in nearly every way (I've not driven a 991 though so can't comment, but presume it would just be a software change).

Anyone know what gearbox is in the new RR Wraith, the one that is GPS controlled?

Lustral · 28 Jun 2017 at 09:06

paradigm said:
I actually really like the CVTs in mid 2000's Audis, the Mrs would be driving one right now if the horror stories of them going kaput weren't so rife. Lovely and smooth, imperceptible changes in "ratio" (I know there aren't actual ratios to change, but are "fixed" points in the later firmware), and quiet as the quietest churchmouse.

Their downfall was reliability.

My previous daily was a CVT box , which i had from new for almost 5 years before i choppped it in and it seemed to be robust and i did drive it darn hard , it was the 7 step version or CVT-7 as they call it.

Nasher · 28 Jun 2017 at 09:31

paradigm said:
I actually really like the CVTs in mid 2000's Audis, the Mrs would be driving one right now if the horror stories of them going kaput weren't so rife. Lovely and smooth, imperceptible changes in "ratio" (I know there aren't actual ratios to change, but are "fixed" points in the later firmware), and quiet as the quietest churchmouse.

Their downfall was reliability.

The newer Audis aren't really much better TBH. Still quite a number of known issues :/

The risk of being slapped with an £8000 bill for engine problems put me off buying an older S4.