Who's right?

gurusan · 19 Jan 2007 at 22:37

So you may have heard this question before....anyway here's the thread. The debate kinda starts around page 3.....my name is the same there "gurusan"

Just curious if I'm right or not. I was the first one to vote yes and was hoping i wasn't making a fool of myself, but the more I think about it the more I think I'm right.

Gavstar · 19 Jan 2007 at 22:38

Aaagh, I knew it would be that! Of course it will, the wheels of the plane aren't providing the driving force.

Edit: For those that get in after the link gets removed then its the classic plane on a conveyor belt scenario.

Andr3w · 19 Jan 2007 at 22:40

for a plane to take off it needs enough speed to get the wind under its wings to lift it (iirc) if this *wind* appears then it will take off,otherwise it wont. Thats why planes like taking off into the wind.

gurusan · 19 Jan 2007 at 22:41

andr3w said:
for a plane to take off it needs enough speed to get the wind under its wings to lift it (iirc) if this *wind* appears then it will take off,otherwise it wont. Thats why planes like taking off into the wind.

*waits for scuzi to prove him wrong*

Yeah, the thrust from the plane will move it forward relative to the air around it...so the wings will be subjected to the air pressure difference and lift will occur.

lay-z-boy · 19 Jan 2007 at 22:41

Oh dear god, not again. :rolleyes:

Planes need lift under the wings, that's what they are there for, no lift, no flying plane.

FACT.

gurusan · 19 Jan 2007 at 22:42

lay-z-boy said:
Oh dear god, not again.

Planes need lift under the wings, that's what they are there for, no lift, no flying plane.

FACT.

lift will be there

lay-z-boy · 19 Jan 2007 at 22:43

gurusan said:
lift will be there

Explain theory please.

Gavstar · 19 Jan 2007 at 22:43

lay-z-boy said:
Oh dear god, not again.

Planes need lift under the wings, that's what they are there for, no lift, no flying plane.

FACT.

You are saying it won't take off? I'm sure you'll be embarassed by this later

gurusan · 19 Jan 2007 at 22:44

lay-z-boy said:
Explain theory please.

The plane will be moving so there will be lift....I'll copy one of my posts in that thread

gurusan said:
What is preventing the plane from moving forward? Certainly not the wheels if they are free spinning, the only friction will be from the weight of the plane pushing force down onto the conveyor belt through the tires. Even though this may be a lot of force, it's not much in comparison to the thrust the engine(s) provide.

Therefore if the backward force (forward thrust) is enough to overcome the friction of the weight of the plane then the plane will move forward relative to the air around it. Therefore, the wings will see moving air and yes, the plane will fly.

Gavstar · 19 Jan 2007 at 22:45

gurusan said:
The plane will be moving so there will be lift....I'll copy one of my posts in that thread

Bingo

lay-z-boy · 19 Jan 2007 at 22:45

Gavstar said:
You are saying it won't take off? I'm sure you'll be embarassed by this later

Im saying without upthrust or lift, the plane cannot take off.

kaiowas · 19 Jan 2007 at 22:46

Ah great, the evenings entertainment has arrived

/Breaks out the popcorn.

Scuzi · 19 Jan 2007 at 22:46

Yes it will take off. Thrust is not applied through the wheels. The engines provide thrust against the airmass and the plane will accelerate relative to the airmass. When the airspeed over the wing is sufficient, regardless of what speed the wheels are travelling at, enough lift will be produced to lift the aircraft from the ground.

The wheels just freewheel, there's no drive through them. I can't believe how many people argue this case, it's plainly obvious that it will take off.

Any argument otherwise is wrong

Jokester · 19 Jan 2007 at 22:46

The wheels don't provide the motive force, the thrust from the engines will push it forward regardless of the treadmill. Airflow over the wings as a result of the forward movement will generate lift and as a result it will takeoff.

Jokester

Andr3w · 19 Jan 2007 at 22:47

Scuzi said:
Yes it will take off. Thrust is not applied through the wheels. The engines provide thrust against the airmass and the plane will accelerate relative to the airmass. When the airspeed over the wing is sufficient, regardless of what speed the wheels are travelling at, enough lift will be produced to lift the aircraft from the ground.

The wheels just freewheel, there's no drive through them. I can't believe how many people argue this case, it's plainly obvious that it will take off.

Any argument otherwise is wrong

So what IF the thrust DID come from the wheels. Would it take off then?

gurusan · 19 Jan 2007 at 22:48

good...nice to finally hear some agreement as so far it's only been 1 other guy and me who have argued against everyone else.

gurusan · 19 Jan 2007 at 22:49

andr3w said:
So what IF the thrust DID come from the wheels. Would it take off then?

It wouldn't be thrust...if the wheels were providing the driving force then of course not.

Not to mention if it ever did get off the ground driving force would be lost lol

Scuzi · 19 Jan 2007 at 22:49

andr3w said:
So what IF the thrust DID come from the wheels. Would it take off then?

But it doesn't. If the thrust came from the wheels then it would work just like a car on a rolling road. The wheels would spin and the vehicle won't accelerate.

That;s just stupid though, aircraft don't get their thrust from the wheels.

lay-z-boy · 19 Jan 2007 at 22:50

gurusan said:
good...nice to finally hear some agreement as so far it's only been 1 other guy and me who have argued against everyone else.

Ah, but i didnt argue.

Andr3w · 19 Jan 2007 at 22:50

Scuzi said:
But it doesn't. If the thrust came from the wheels then it would work just like a car on a rolling road. The wheels would spin and the vehicle won't accelerate.

That;s just stupid though, aircraft don't get their thrust from the wheels.

I know they don't i agree with you.
It was just a hypothetical question.