Why are PS3 games released later than on the 360

[Nanoman]

Umm Your analogy is flawed in... well... every single way.


It would be closer to VHS (360) and BetaMax (PS3) <-- Based on current state of play. PS3 (unlike Betamax) should turn out to be a success

Your analogy could however be used in the transition from PS2 (VHS) to PS3(DVD). That would be an accurate use of your analogy.

Yea it was a subconscious dig.

 

[Margaret]

Agreed, John Carmack has even said it is tricky to develop for and the guy is a genius.

^^

doubt it ?

so you think they instantly trained to code in the different way then?

these coder guys have spent years at uni and on the job learning thing the one way , when you tell them "hey weve got this complete new way of doing things" theyre going to instantly pick it up , its naturally going to be slower for them to do.

thats why its tricky

there nothing making it harder to learn its just that no one HAS learnt yet

if you gave 2 complete newbies whod never coded in there life a task on both platforms theyd get it done about the same

You know developers have had PS3 devkits since like 2005?

I doubt Valve, Ubisoft and Mr. Carmack said it to have a dig at the Playstation, oh and if I remember correctly EA said something about it as well.

 

[noob]

these coder guys have spent years at uni and on the job learning thing the one way , when you tell them "hey weve got this complete new way of doing things" theyre going to instantly pick it up , its naturally going to be slower for them to do.

Hence it's harder to develop for. When your dealing with multiple cores and have to code using parallel processing techniques it's not easy by any means. By the way have you written any code using parallel processing?

 

["andy"]

Hence it's harder to develop for. When your dealing with multiple cores and have to code using parallel processing techniques it's not easy by any means.

this is what im trying to say...

theyre unexpierienced in it. in years time they will know as much about it as they do the traditional way and it will take more similar time

 

[noob]

so common then what makes it harder ?


the only thing making it harder afaik is because there isnt enough people expierienced in it , and even they arent very expierienced

Parallel processing has been around for decades, although it is naturally more difficult to program for. In layman's terms it's like managing a company compared to managing one person.

 

[Nanoman]

this is what im trying to say...

theyre unexpierienced in it. in years time they will know as much about it as they do the traditional way

Yea saying a new item of hardware that has just been released onto the market is hard to develop for at this point it time, has surely got to be pretty damn obvious???? Developers arent in the matrix. Load up the cell program!

 

[Margaret]

its not harder in that its actually "hard to do".

If that was true people wouldn't be moaning surely, I mean the founder of Valve (I think it was the founder) slated the PS3 pretty badly about losing track of what developers wanted or something.

I don't think it's a case of it's new so it's hard because really, it's not so new.

Yea saying a new item of hardware that has just been released onto the market is hard to develop for at this point it time has surely got to be pretty damn obvious???? Developers arent in the matrix. Load up the cell program!

Developers would have had devkits earlier than the release, and it wasn't that recently released, hello November 2006.

 

["andy"]

If that was true people wouldn't be moaning surely, I mean the founder of Valve (I think it was the founder) slated the PS3 pretty badly about losing track of what developers wanted or something.

I don't think it's a case of it's new so it's hard because really, it's not so new.

look at my image editing example , course they'd be moaning because its harder for them to learn a new thing than to do what theyve been doing for the last 5 years or so

its lazyness and not wanting to learn new things

 

["andy"]

Developers would have had devkits earlier than the release, and it wasn't that recently released, hello November 2006.

you love mentioning the devkits dont you ,

so what if its been around 2/3 years ?

the coders coding 360 games have been doing similar methods since they left college and university

 

[noob]

its lazyness and not wanting to learn new things

haha. I program for a living and you know what I love learning new things if I don't I get extremely bored. Every coder I've come across wants to learn new things that's the challenge.

 

[Margaret]

look at my image editing example , course they'd be moaning because its harder for them to learn a new thing than to do what theyve been doing for the last 5 years or so

its lazyness and not wanting to learn new things

Last 5 years? Huh what, I'm guessing they are comparing the development process on PS3 to 360 and saying it's harder in comparison and they have every right to be annoyed.

I doubt it's lazyness, and if it was then surely the same thing would have been said about the 360?

 

[Wyrdo]

Apparently a lot of the difficulties lie in porting to the PS3 rather than developing on it from the ground up which seems to be why we're seeing multi format games appearing later on the PS3.

Also it is more difficult to develop for the cell, it's not just the devs being lazy

Look at the difference in code performing a simple algorithm on the cell.

On a Pentium 4 HT running at 3.4 GHz, this algorithm is able to check 24-million edges per second. On the Cell, at the end of our optimization, we achieved a performance of 538-million edges per second. This is an impressive result, but came at the price of an explosion in code complexity. While the algorithm in Listing One fits in 60 lines of source code, our final algorithm on the Cell measures 1200 lines of code.

In short, the Cell offers an impressive potential for performance. However, due to its architecture and limited support offered by the compiler, you can't expect to exploit this potential by just recompiling your current applications. Applications must be radically redesigned in terms of computation and data transfers. Computational bottlenecks must often be analyzed and addressed manually, and data transfers must be properly orchestrated in order to hide their latency completely under the computational delays. This work has been supported by the Laboratory Directed Research and Development Program for the Data-Intensive Computing Initiative at Pacific Northwest National Laboratory, operated by Battelle for the U.S. Department of Energy under Contract DEAC0576RL01830.

 

[Manlove is my forte]

Yea it was a subconscious dig.

I'm sorry you will have to explain that to me, I cant for the life of me see what you are trying to say with that dig. I guess its possible that you are some how saying the PS3 is better than the 360... but then who cares the 360 has all the good games at the moment and looks to be getting loads more good games. I take it you are a Sony Fanboy (well the above quote suggests you are) So what games are you looking forward to?

 

[tomanders91]

Im pretty sure it will be a year or 2 before ports will start actually playing as good as the 360's, but games built specificly for the PS3 will start coming through later this year and 2008, i beleive these should be smooth and look good.

 

[Nanoman]

I'm sorry you will have to explain that to me, I cant for the life of me see what you are trying to say with that dig. I guess its possible that you are some how saying the PS3 is better than the 360... but then who cares the 360 has all the good games at the moment and looks to be getting loads more good games. I take it you are a Sony Fanboy (well the above quote suggests you are) So what games are you looking forward to?

Im looking forward to:

MGS4, Golden Axe, Lair, Dirt, Heavenly Sword, RES5, John Woo Stranglehold, Skate, Ratchet & Clank Future, PlayStation Home, Tony Hawk's Proving Ground, Super Street Fighter II Turbo HD Remix, GT5, Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock, Need for Speed ProStreet, Assassin's Creed, LittleBigPlanet, GTAIV, Brothers in Arms: Hell's Highway, Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare, Haze, Kane & Lynch: Dead Men, Time Crisis 4...among some others

And am currently enjoying, RFOM, Motorstorm, Ridgeracer, Ninja Gaiden Sigma, Virtue Fighter, Tekken Dark Resurrection & Rub-a-dub!lol

My brother owns a 360 and do enjoy gears, but i feel (not as much now) that the console forums are run by 360 fanboys! And this time next year i reckon it will be mainly be ps3 talk.

Anyway, op...

 

[Manlove is my forte]

Im looking forward to:

My brother owns a 360 and do enjoy gears, but i feel (not as much now) that the console forums are run by 360 fanboys! And this time next year i reckon it will be mainly be ps3 talk.

Anyway, op...

With out sounding like I'm making a dig, These forums will sound like that because tbh the 360 community have more to talk about.

When I joined here the PC and console forum was combined. So irrespective of console you owned you were shot down by the PC mob (nearly got banned within my first 2 weeks for arguing the PS2 was better than PC's at the time - which it was at the time).

TBH things have gotten so much better since then its untrue. But these little debates will aways happen especially if people make "Subconscious Digs".

At the end of the day the PS3 will only show its worth when the games come out. The disappointing thing is there are so few exclusives. Had Sony pulled their finger out and released the PS3 prior to the 360 then I think more developers would have taken a risk with it (it wouldn't have even been considered a risk if the PS3 came out before the 360 tbh)

 

[Tony Williams]

Give it time people ... once the PS3 picks up and has more exclusives it'll rock.

The downside to having a processor that's hard to code is money investment, which will make it harder for 'little companies' to get thier games out on the shelves.

I do think the PS3 in a couple of years will improve a lot, might even overtake the 360.

That's probably when I'll get one, or wait for the PS4, or maybe PS5.

 

[Margaret]

And this time next year i reckon it will be mainly be ps3 talk.

The majority of people here are really only looking forward to MGS4 on PS3, so I seriously doubt that.

It'll be like it is now more than likely, or Wii talk.

 

[Nanoman]

At the end of the day the PS3 will only show its worth when the games come out. The disappointing thing is there are so few exclusives. Had Sony pulled their finger out and released the PS3 prior to the 360 then I think more developers would have taken a risk with it (it wouldn't have even been considered a risk if the PS3 came out before the 360 tbh)

I dont think developing for the PS3 is a risk now to be honest, i mean its hardly a failure, its outsold the 360 in Japan (bearing in mind 360s been out over a year longer aswell!) If the PS3 had been released before the 360 then it wouldnt be what it is today! No Blu-ray !! (4Gb limit!) No HDMI! And probably no wifi, harddrive (as standard), card-reader, or whatever the 360 lacks basically, or maybe it wouldnt even work? I dunno but maybe a PS3 Elite would be on the horizon??

Its still early days, which is why there arent hundreds of releases, and surely some of the exclusives that we know of now are fairly impressive? Final Fantasy XIII, God of War 3 (rumour), Unreal Tournament, Grand Turismo 5, Heavenly Sword, Jak and Daxter, Killzone 3, Lair, Little Big Planet, Home, Metal Gear Solid 4, MotorStorm, Ninja Gaiden Sigma, Ratchet & Clank Future, Resistance: Fall of Man, Resistance: Rise of Man, Ridge Racer 7, Tekken 6, The Getaway, Warhawk, Wipeout?

Time will tell ...

 

[Wyrdo]

The downside to having a processor that's hard to code is money investment, which will make it harder for 'little companies' to get thier games out on the shelves.

I was going to make this point too, it is costing developers more to code for the PS3 so that's not going to help either.