Why aren't arts degrees "real degrees"?

[semi-pro waster]

Because degrees in something like law or accounting require a certain amount of intellectualism, a degree in art just means you wanted to go to university but were too stupid to do an academic degree (either that or genuinely wanted to be an art teacher, the only job that degree will get you).

Or you genuinely wanted to do art or work in a related field... Intelligence doesn't necessarily enter into it, you can be smart but not want to do an academic degree.

Its a feeling shared by the university's themselves, they make the "joke" degree people wear different coloured gowns and come out after the "real" degree people during graduation ceremony (or at least Bangor do)

I don't know how Bangor do their graduation ceremonies but I rather thought most places divided their graduates into BA/BSc/LLB etc then breaking down into subjects anyway, it's not making a distinction about the "joke" degrees. It's simply different schools and different subjects within those schools.

You can have fun and get a first. It requires hard work but you can have fun as well. It's about having self-discipline.

True you can have fun and get a first, it's somewhat more difficult and for me I believe I would have had to limit my fun a whole lot more if I'd wanted a first though. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't have minded if I'd got one but I had worked out that I'd need to study hugely more than I did to chase down the final few marks to get to the stage of being in contention for a first.

 

[Maccy]

Many people accuse me of taking a 'rubbish degree' - BSc Music & Sound Tech. Doesn't bother me, doing it because I enjoy it mainly.

 

[ikillbears]

I did a BA in Graphic Design and a Masters in Design and they were both hard as *%$£. Nearly failed the BA and only got a 2:2. But got a Merit in the Masters. Now working as a graphic and website designer.



The ratio of hot women (not just women) to actual blokes on my course was ridiculous. So the blokes were very happy.



Yup, and I can for example also discuss advanced euclidean geometry, explain the significance of colour theory, talk about the importance of the golden ratio, and detail the development of movable type and the impact it had on european society and the rest of the world.

Don't be so patronising please - I can't stand people who are so ignorant and write off things they don't understand.

bloody well put sir. Graphic Design degree my self but didn't follow it through. Currently working in Advertising. Learning ' the arts ' is more than just drawing pretty pictures. teaches you to analyse, evolve and think very creatively through problems and a great way of working. I may not know as much as certain people about finance etc but i bet if i got together a bunch of designeres / art students they could come up with some very very interesting ways of solving a problem that the otherwise smarter and higher educated people couldn't. Or not, but to out right dismiss it is just down right retarded and in my opinion makes any one who says that completely null and void of what i believe an education really should allow. to make people think, question, and think through all sides of an argument and possibility. not just regurgitate

 

[fez]

They are pointless as there is no need for a degree in art. I have never ever heard of anywhere asking for an art degree as a qualification for a job. We used to have the balls to actually admit that everything in this world cannot and should not be related to a degree and had academies, apprenticeships etc.

Now all you hear about is now we need to pour money into helping music and arts flourish. I have to say, the current period is the worst for god knows how long for mainstream music. The arts were typically the reserve of those who loved the subject and were not concerned for money. The best artists would naturally rise to the top through their talent and popularity.

Its usually a fairly simple equation. University does not cost as little as students pay for it, therefore the only sustainable way that it can function is to recoup those costs through the future earning and taxation of those who have benefited from their subsidised education.

Wonder why university is going to cost so much in the future? Because we can't possibly admit that certain subjects are not suited to degrees and that they are unnecessary for a lot of subjects. We should give money to the arts but not in the way we currently do.

 

[Theophany]

You can have fun and get a first. It requires hard work but you can have fun as well. It's about having self-discipline.

I've no doubt you can, but it's a question of balance. I'm going to spend 40+ years being an adult, paying mortgages, bills etc etc. Uni has been my three-year send-off into the real world.

That's not to say I haven't worked myself hard when I've needed to, but living the party boy lifestyle has been a blast and is something I won't feel the urge to indulge as I get older. Plus, even though I am not predicted a 1:1, I still have job interviews coming up with a couple of respectable fund managers, which is exactly where I wanted to be when I signed on the dotted line over 2 years ago.

Would have been nice to score a 1:1, but I always knew I wouldn't do it and (thus far) it has had no effect on my career prospects - I'm still unemployed, looking for a job.

 

[Pete.Dakota]

If someone is so good at art that they can make a good living off of it, they wouldn't need a degree in it.

Being good at art and creativity is a natural gift and can't be taught. Going to uni and doing fine art because you "like art" is a waste of time and unless you have a natural talent you'll probably wind up racking up a load of debt, wasting 3 years of possible career progression and working in a coffee shop.

*edit* The graphic design argument is a bit different as it is VERY technical. I know this as I have a friend doing it. I'd consider it to be more of an art-science, and is very heavy on the theory. No problems here.

 

[KaHn]

Many people accuse me of taking a 'rubbish degree' - BSc Music & Sound Tech. Doesn't bother me, doing it because I enjoy it mainly.

Best way.

KaHn

 

[reflux]

If someone is so good at art that they can make a good living off of it, they wouldn't need a degree in it.

Being good at art and creativity is a natural gift and can't be taught. Going to uni and doing fine art because you "like art" is a waste of time and unless you have a natural talent you'll probably wind up racking up a load of debt, wasting 3 years of possible career progression and working in a coffee shop.

Of course it can be taught. How ridiculous. Why do you think people study music as well? Just because someone has a talent for something doesn't mean that they can't better themselves by learning about it.

 

[NathanE]

I feel sorry for anybody who graduates with a 1:1, frankly. There is so much to do and experience at university that getting a 1:1 would be a sign that you didn't have enough fun.

I've scored enough 80%+ papers to know that I'd die of boredom focusing all my energy on maintaining that for 3 years. Life's short, a degree is just a piece of paper, a 2:1 is easily enough for employment, the drinks are cheap and the women are easy.

Plus, it's not what you know, but who you know.

I'm guessing you got a 2:1 then

This post is a bit like PJR (purchase justification reflex) that happens in the rest of the OcUK forums.

 

[Pete.Dakota]

Of course it can be taught. How ridiculous. Why do you think people study music as well? Just because someone has a talent for something doesn't mean that they can't better themselves by learning about it.

I mean the real talent, the "god given" stuff that would propel someone into being able to make a living off of creating and selling their art.

You can't possibly expect an art tutor to pull a random unemployed person of the street, teach them how to paint, and 3 years later they're selling their work and earning on average 30k per year?

 

[meghatronic]

I feel sorry for anybody who graduates with a 1:1, frankly. There is so much to do and experience at university that getting a 1:1 would be a sign that you didn't have enough fun.

I've scored enough 80%+ papers to know that I'd die of boredom focusing all my energy on maintaining that for 3 years. Life's short, a degree is just a piece of paper, a 2:1 is easily enough for employment, the drinks are cheap and the women are easy.

Plus, it's not what you know, but who you know.

That's not really a sensible post.

University is a balance, I was a few marks (literally) off a first. I guess I got the balance slightly wrong. To say I would have had to forgo all fun and experiences to get a first is disingenuous.

It may be who you know, but a first certainly opens doors.

 

[Theophany]

I'm guessing you got a 2:1 then

This post is a bit like PJR (purchase justification reflex) that happens in the rest of the OcUK forums.

I've yet to graduate, a 2:1 is what I aim for, not what I have achieved

That's not really a sensible post.

University is a balance, I was a few marks (literally) off a first. I guess I got the balance slightly wrong. To say I would have had to forgo all fun and experiences to get a first is disingenuous.

It may be who you know, but a first certainly opens doors.

Surely if it was that close you could have appealed to have it bumped up? I heard this was standard practice - i.e. if your overall academic conduct has been of a first class standard, being a mark or two short can qualify you for a first class degree. Happened to my buddy who was something like 68 by the end of his degree.

A degree is a great help, sure, but I didn't score any job interviews on applications alone. I sought out people who worked at the firms I applied to beforehand, made my name and face known to them etc. On more than one occasion, it was knowing somebody within the organisation who actually put my name in front of HR when my applications weren't accepted.

Some of these firms have over 1,000 graduate applicants per place. Having a degree does not set you apart from the crowd.

 

[reflux]

I mean the real talent, the "god given" stuff that would propel someone into being able to make a living off of creating and selling their art.

So only those with 'God-given' talent can make a living off selling their work? Strange comment - this country has thousands of artists who regularly sell their work... I'm sure only a small percentage of them have 'God-given' talent.

 

[Theophany]

So only those with 'God-given' talent can make a living off selling their work? Strange comment - this country has thousands of artists who regularly sell their work... I'm sure only a small percentage of them have 'God-given' talent.

The rest is Allah-given, Ganesh-given, Buddah-given and Flying Spaghetti Monster-given. We are a secular society

 

[KaHn]

Surely if it was that close you could have appealed to have it bumped up? I heard this was standard practice - i.e. if your overall academic conduct has been of a first class standard, being a mark or two short can qualify you for a first class degree. Happened to my buddy who was something like 68 by the end of his degree.

A degree is a great help, sure, but I didn't score any job interviews on applications alone. I sought out people who worked at the firms I applied to beforehand, made my name and face known to them etc. On more than one occasion, it was knowing somebody within the organisation who actually put my name in front of HR when my applications weren't accepted.

Some of these firms have over 1,000 graduate applicants per place. Having a degree does not set you apart from the crowd.

I would suggest coming back in a couple of years, once you get some actual experience before suggesting you know a lot about the recruitment process to jump through it easily.

KaHn

 

[Pete.Dakota]

So only those with 'God-given' talent can make a living off selling their work? Strange comment - this country has thousands of artists who regularly sell their work... I'm sure only a small percentage of them have 'God-given' talent.

That's true of course. But many thousands more who spent 3 years doing fine art and can't sell anything of enough value to mean they don't need a normal job because they're just not talented enough. Way more.

 

[fez]

So only those with 'God-given' talent can make a living off selling their work? Strange comment - this country has thousands of artists who regularly sell their work... I'm sure only a small percentage of them have 'God-given' talent.

You dont have to have a god given talent to make money with art but it is a profession with a relatively small spending base.

Look at most other jobs and they fulfil a requirement. Plumbers and electricians are necessary to build a new house, renovate an office. You want to grow your business online, you need a web developer, you want to sue someone, you get a lawyer.

Art is something that people are passionate about but it is not a necessity to the economy and the vast majority of people have no interest.

Art should be funded, but I don't personally think that it should be through a degree. It costs a lot of money to leave home and study at university. That used to be be on the understanding of the increased wages it would bring. We simply cannot afford to pay for degrees where the vast vast majority will never gain employment for that degree and most will not hit the wages required to support the university system.

Should we start plumbing and electricians degrees? Maybe one for builders? Nothing wrong with these professions but they don't need a degree.

 

[Theophany]

I would suggest coming back in a couple of years, once you get some actual experience before suggesting you know a lot about the recruitment process to jump through it easily.

KaHn

I didn't say I knew a lot about, nor that I had jumped through it easily.

Re-read what I actually posted. I said that knowing people in useful places is more important than just having a degree, do you take a fundamental disagreement with this or are you just looking for a scrap?

EDIT: I didn't suggest, nor insinuate I knew a lot, I recounted my own experience. Did I insult you with the sport science comment or something?

 

[meghatronic]

Surely if it was that close you could have appealed to have it bumped up? I heard this was standard practice - i.e. if your overall academic conduct has been of a first class standard, being a mark or two short can qualify you for a first class degree. Happened to my buddy who was something like 68 by the end of his degree.

I was a few marks off in a few modules so I fell short overall. We (dept.) worked out if I'd got a 2-1 instead of a third in one exam, I would've had enough for them to consider bumping up. Oh well. My degree is useless now anyway .

 

[KaHn]

I didn't say I knew a lot about, nor that I had jumped through it easily.

Re-read what I actually posted. I said that knowing people in useful places is more important than just having a degree, do you take a fundamental disagreement with this or are you just looking for a scrap?

No not at all, I am just saying that your posts in this thread come across as the only way you will get a job is by knowing someone in the company you are applying to, which is utter bull plop.

But like I said if you think it will be that easy for you to jump into those positions by just knowing someone in the company then great, come back in a few years once you have done it then I will believe it.

KaHn