Why do Michelin restaurants charge a service fee....

[Jokester]

On the flip side, if the restaurant just upped costs by 10% they would have to pay increased NI rates, increased pension costs. Realistically the extra "profit" would just go to the owners/shareholders.

Well yes, that’s how other businesses normally operate?

 

[robj20]

Why the chauffeur? Can you not afford a valet?


Of course it's optional. You may get asked what was wrong, but you are well within your rights to demand it be removed for whatever reason. They can't force you to pay it.

Michelin service is very good compared even to the likes of Orwells or Inver.
The service does have to be consistently good, but because what is considered 'good' is so subjective, the standard varies according to what the customer requires. If all you want is to be waited upon by servants, then that's what you get. If you want a warm welcome, with staff who are happy to chat with you, they'll do that. If you want ketchup with your thrice-fried pommes confit, that's what they will provide. If you want to feel lke royalty, that's what they'll do. If the guest asks for a substitution, they should not be told that this cannot be done - NOTHING within reason is impossible.

Staff need a tremendous depth of knowledge about the restaurant, the wine and food and how it's prepared (almost the same level as the chef), the etiquette, and everything else that goes with it. That takes a lot of training and study. This isn't just a normal waitering job - It's a full-on profession at this level.
But if you just want one all-inclusive charge, drop the 10% service charge and add 20-30% to your base bill. That still won't fully cover the 'proper wage' level, but it should help illustrate the sort of value these places attach to their service staff.

I don't add a service charge for what I do at work. My employer pays what my role is worth and costs.
I to am highly trained at what I do.

 

[dirtychinchilla]

It doesn't make sense though, is there some tax benefit to avoid paying them a wage equal to 10% more expensive menus vs giving the 10% tip ?

It's not like service is difficult to require more than minimum wage though, you're literally just ferrying plates to tables and taking orders ? Does good service even exist ? I don't think it does, there's just "Service" or bad service where things don't go expected

Do you ever go to restaurants? There are definitely different qualities of service. I went to a Chinese restaurant recently where they had no problem reaching across you, armpit in face, mid conversation, to get something. That is bad service.

I never pay an optional service charge. Absolutely never.

I'll nearly always leave a tip to a waiter who has served the table throughout. That's different. That's discretionary and is about how attentive they were.

That anywhere is depending on a service charge to pay their staff. I won't go there.

Service charges benefit the whole team instead of just the waiter. So if you take the point above, you're not just paying for someone to ferry plates, you're also paying for the chef doing a good job.

Now whether that makes sense or not, I don't know, but I prefer service charges to tipping.

 

[Minusorange]

Do you ever go to restaurants? There are definitely different qualities of service. I went to a Chinese restaurant recently where they had no problem reaching across you, armpit in face, mid conversation, to get something. That is bad service.

The quality is relative to the price, if you're paying Michelin prices, you expect a Michelin service, as I've already said, yes the service is "good" when you compare to a Weatherspoons however at 20x the price of a Weatherspoon that service is relative and is just "standard" for Michelin so you can't really compare as it's basically apples to oranges

 

[dirtychinchilla]

The quality is relative to the price, if you're paying Michelin prices, you expect a Michelin service, as I've already said, yes the service is "good" when you compare to a Weatherspoons however at 20x the price of a Weatherspoon that service is relative and is just "standard" for Michelin so you can't really compare as it's basically apples to oranges

You said they just ferry plates. That's not true.

 

[Chojin]

Really dislike service charges, I just want to know what I will be paying up front and then make a decision based on that.

When a restaurant brings you the bill and it contains a surprise service charge, then they are putting you in a precarious position. I think most people want their experience to go smoothly without causing a scene so they are taking advantage of that fact.

Really hope that the tipping culture of North America doesn't creep in. In Canada some coffee shops put default 18-20% tip on the card reader. For a takeaway drink and before you've even received your drink, it's quite ridiculous.

 

[Mrwong]

I have noticed places that charge you service fees with out telling you first offer the worse service. I have refused to pay the service charges for poor service.

 

[Efour]

Why is it the restaurant industry has service charges now in the 21st century?
Historic low wages is an obsolete argument.
Is it just social stigma.
Why do I tip the cabby that's already ripping me off at 4 quid every 15 seconds?
Corking fees.
Other complete nonsense.
A tip should be 100% optional and based on your experience.
Why do only certain jobs get tips?
Why do I need to tip the bell boy to do his job then unlock my door?
I just do not get it.

 

[Minusorange]

You said they just ferry plates. That's not true.

If you don't like being pampered and they get the hint, then ferrying plates is all they hopefully do, if I want waffle, I'll order waffle I guess you could ask why bother going to a restaurant then ? To eat the food

But it's not really the point, I said I don't mind paying for service if it's in the menu price, there's absolutely no reason to add it at the end with a socially polarising choice to either pay or look an ahole

 

[ttaskmaster]

I don't add a service charge for what I do at work. My employer pays what my role is worth and costs.
I to am highly trained at what I do.

What do you do in your role that is way over and above what others in similar roles with similar training do?
Service charges are fundamentally similar to commissions vs base pay in sales roles, except that you don't get them for good performance but rather lose them for poor performance.

The quality is relative to the price, if you're paying Michelin prices, you expect a Michelin service, as I've already said, yes the service is "good" when you compare to a Weatherspoons however at 20x the price of a Weatherspoon that service is relative and is just "standard" for Michelin so you can't really compare as it's basically apples to oranges

And yet a Michelin place at 20x* will give you better service than a place that costs 30x.
The issue is that the shape of that service is different for every person. Some places will offer 'good' service as 'standard', whereas the Michelin service is all about tailoring that service to the individual guest.

*You're probably still going to the wrong places, incidentally. I'd normally expect about £65pp for a five course Michelin meal. Wine depends greatly on what you order, but is always expensive wherever you go, unless you like the cheap ****.

 

[bigmike20vt]

I object to the whole notion of tipping tbh (despite that i do it so am part of the problem - no Mr Pink references needed here! ).
People should be paid a fair wage for the job they do, and it should be paid for by the employer....... IF i dont tip after a meal the angst should be at the boss for giving a crap salary not me for not tipping.

and as for what about if i get a rubbish service........ well then i would likely refuse to pay - or insist on a reduction - and indeed i have done that in the past anyway with or without a tipping culture and then that should be down to the employer to either offer better staff training or get better staff

this is an aside from a Michelin meal anyway as i genuinely would rather go to a hungry horse or marstons or even weatherspoons than some toffed up pretentious place with over priced mucked about food.

what really grinds my gears (and i dont tip then so maybe a little mr pink after all) is when the staff have the balls to have a tip request when you go to the bar to be served a drink....... then they are not even waiting on me and they can do one if they think that pulling a pint or passing me a bottle from the fridge is somehow a job i should be kicking in extras for. (i worked at a pub as well before getting my actual job back in the day and i did not expect anything tip wise)

 

[Semple]

Why is it the restaurant industry has service charges now in the 21st century?
Historic low wages is an obsolete argument.
Is it just social stigma.
Why do I tip the cabby that's already ripping me off at 4 quid every 15 seconds?
Corking fees.
Other complete nonsense.
A tip should be 100% optional and based on your experience.
Why do only certain jobs get tips?
Why do I need to tip the bell boy to do his job then unlock my door?
I just do not get it.

Actually corkage fees I can get on board with - assuming they're reasonable.

Our local pizzeria is BYOB and I think they charge £1 person for corkage. I do deliberately drink from a glass then rather than a bottle.

 

[Scam]

I'm betting that most of the people who complain about the service/tips being included would be the first to go all-out Karen if there was a problem with the service.

Playing devil's advocate, I think having service separate on the bill is an important thing of your average restaurant. There's a high tipping culture in the US, but you know what? Their service in your average restaurant is a million times better than it is over here. So I think it works. If people actually tipped properly over here, and staff knew it, maybe we'd all end up with a better experience lol..

 

[Mrwong]

I'm betting that most of the people who complain about the service/tips being included would be the first to go all-out Karen if there was a problem with the service.

Playing devil's advocate, I think having service separate on the bill is an important thing of your average restaurant. There's a high tipping culture in the US, but you know what? Their service in your average restaurant is a million times better than it is over here. So I think it works. If people actually tipped properly over here, and staff knew it, maybe we'd all end up with a better experience lol..

I have to disagree, you should only tip if they serviced you well. The problem with the UK they charge you a tip with out asking.

 

[bigmike20vt]

I'm betting that most of the people who complain about the service/tips being included would be the first to go all-out Karen if there was a problem with the service.

Playing devil's advocate, I think having service separate on the bill is an important thing of your average restaurant. There's a high tipping culture in the US, but you know what? Their service in your average restaurant is a million times better than it is over here. So I think it works. If people actually tipped properly over here, and staff knew it, maybe we'd all end up with a better experience lol..

dont waitresses get paid a brutally poor salary over in the states tho? indeed (i maybe making it up) but somewhere in the back of my mind, some jobs you even are expected to work for free for because they are prime placed for getting good tips.

imo that is a broken society there and not something i will ever support.

I think we should turn it on its head, grow a pair and go the other way..... if service is poor you complain and knock 10% off the bill.

 

[Minusorange]

Their service in your average restaurant is a million times better than it is over here.

Because their lives depend on it

 

[Stu999]

dont waitresses get paid a brutally poor salary over in the states tho? indeed (i maybe making it up) but somewhere in the back of my mind, some jobs you even are expected to work for free for because they are prime placed for getting good tips.

They don't have minimum wage in every state so yes, probably some are on $5 / hour or whatever. I also read that Las Vegas cabbies are taxed based on imputed rents so they apparently get very arsey if you don't tip.

Edit - I'm wrong. Apparently, there is a federal minimum wage but there is an exclusion for people who normally receive tips. Those people can receive a lower than minimum wage so long as it works out to about the same as the minimum when taking tips into account. Utterly bizarre system: https://www.epi.org/publication/waiting-for-change-tipped-minimum-wage/

Edit 2 - Wyoming's "tipped wage" is $2.13

 

[bigmike20vt]

years ago - pre child - I went on a fantastic holiday to Jamaica. The staff there were forbidden from accepting a tip and we were told on arrival not to tempt staff by offering them a tip. We were told not to worry they had a more than fair salary to make up for any loss.
a brilliant holiday (i learned to dive their but that is a segue) and a few of us on the dive boat went for drinks with the dive team (free for us the joys of all inclusive) and they confirmed it, if we offered them a tip they would refuse and the job was so well paid it was not worth it - everyone turned a blind eye when we "bought" them a drink of course.

but it made for such a chilled out relaxed holiday, i didnt need to carry tipping cash around with me, and i didnt have the (possibly self induced) pressure of wondering how much to tip and to whom. Sure the holiday probably cost more because if it (it was eye wateringly expensive but brilliant. (montego bay Sandals - i have also been to the one at ocho rios a few years later.. but that is not as nice.).

 

[110%]

Their service in your average restaurant is a million times better than it is over here. So I think it works.

In the USA they can give you bad service and still expect 15% tip, because it's practically mandatory. I remember being ignored, then my order being wrong, cold and inedible. I paid the bill and left (without eating the food), they chased me outside and asked me for a tip (which they didn't get).

I didn't find the service in the US to be any different to anywhere else (good in some places, bad in others), but there is no penalty for bad service if everyone gets a tip regardless.

 

[bris]

I'm betting that most of the people who complain about the service/tips being included would be the first to go all-out Karen if there was a problem with the service.

Playing devil's advocate, I think having service separate on the bill is an important thing of your average restaurant. There's a high tipping culture in the US, but you know what? Their service in your average restaurant is a million times better than it is over here. So I think it works. If people actually tipped properly over here, and staff knew it, maybe we'd all end up with a better experience lol..

I've eaten in dozens of US restaurants and they are no better than anywhere else. Where you get that from is anyone's guess.

I always tip obviously but over here its discretionary, over there its pretty much mandatory and no matter what you leave its never enough, their expectations are high.

I believe their tips are a huge part if not all their wages. This is wrong, I never got tips when I had my menswear shops, nobody tipped me or the staff, why its more or less mandatory in restaurants?

Its basically giving the owners free staff. My local Indian restaurant the first time I went told me when you pay by card don't leave a tip because they don't get it so I now need to take cash when I go to tip them, I never carry cash anymore so how much have those owners got of the years.

Do you ever tip in McDonalds, Burger king, five guys? No of course not so why should restaurant's be any different.